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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Real Secrets charged me again! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

BatsMagic
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New York
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Even though I have the dubious distinction of being the first (and probably only!) person to have been booted out of the Real Secrets club, they have now debited my PayPal account for the upcoming year!

I have no desire to take this out in public, but I have no way to take it up with them to get my money back! So I am posting here since I just know that it will be seen by the RS folks.

So, guys and gals of RS, please contact me so that we can straighten it out, OK?

Thanks for keeping me in your thoughts, RS!
Jamie Ferguson
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Alba Gu Brŕth
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Are you sure you haven't got a recurring subscription set up on your PayPal account?

That might explain it.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
BatsMagic
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New York
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Well, yes I did when I signed up. Was there any other way to do it?

But that's not my point- they booted me out. But they continue to charge me year after year?

When I was booted out, my recurring subscription should have ended, no?

Or did I have to take care of that myself?
Ray Haining
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Hot Springs, AR
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Care to share why you were booted out?
Jamie Ferguson
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Alba Gu Brŕth
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Quote:
On 2013-02-25 15:19, BatsMagic wrote:
Well, yes I did when I signed up. Was there any other way to do it?

But that's not my point- they booted me out. But they continue to charge me year after year?

When I was booted out, my recurring subscription should have ended, no?

Or did I have to take care of that myself?

You'll need to go in and cancel it yourself, it doesn't happen automatically. In the meantime you should request a refund.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
BatsMagic
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Well, Ray, it was a fairly public thing 10 months ago, since I was upset about it and came on here to vent.

But here it is in a nutshell:

I gave a review of Issue #1 here on the Café. I believed that I followed their rules, but apparently I did not. I revealed too much info, like the fact that there were items that needed refills, and I also credited the names of the people that "created" the effect. These things were not allowed. I did not reveal exactly what I received in my envelope, but I talked in a general way.

You would have to read the original thread to find out more, but that is basically it. No reason was actually given to me for being drummed out, but that is why.
DelMagic
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Since only the subscribers are capable of setting up the recurring payment, only the subscriber is able to cancel it. According to PayPal:

If you have set up a recurring payment, a subscription, or automatic billing with a merchant, you can cancel your pending payments:

1.Log in to your PayPal account.
2.Click Profile near the top of the page.
3.Click My money.
4.Click Update in the My preapproved payments section.
5.Click Cancel, Cancel automatic billing, or Cancel subscription and follow the instructions.

The system is not setup so that RS comes into your account and takes the money out. You set it up so that you would make the next payment in 12 months. You have to cancel it yourself. The fact that RS didn't control this was obvious as the recurring payment requirement was discussed ad infinitum last year. People turned it on and off at their own pleasure - and if left off then RS ended the subscription immediately. RS cannot turn off any recurring payments that you set up and that's a good thing. Only you have control over your account.
BatsMagic
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OK, Del, I got it. But in reality I DID NOT set up the recurring payments- they did. They just made it so that I would have to disable it myself. As a member I was OK with that. But I'm not a member.

But, once again, since I was thrown out, I would expect them to make sure that I was not able to join again. I never expected to have to go in there and do it myself. Maybe they should have informed me that my presence was no longer welcome, but just to make sure that I was not able to join, please disable the recurring payment, thank you.

If I leave the payment alone, will they welcome me back into the club? Or am I out any way you look at it?
DelMagic
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Who knows if they allow anyone back? If they keep your money, they would have to let you but I wonder if you would want to anyway. I'm sure you won't have any trouble getting your money. I'm sure PayPal will do it for you if you just want to avoid RS altogether.
Xiqual
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Upper left quadrant
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It is just a mistake. Contact them and they will handle it. Anytime I have emailed them, they reply quickly.
If you want to stay, tell them. When you were kicked out, you made such a fuss about how you were going to show everybody what you received and then later posted all kinds of negative comments. Similar to your rant about Asian women being dominated by men, even though you have never been to Asia.
James


Quote:
On 2013-02-25 16:26, BatsMagic wrote:
OK, Del, I got it. But in reality I DID NOT set up the recurring payments- they did. They just made it so that I would have to disable it myself. As a member I was OK with that. But I'm not a member.

But, once again, since I was thrown out, I would expect them to make sure that I was not able to join again. I never expected to have to go in there and do it myself. Maybe they should have informed me that my presence was no longer welcome, but just to make sure that I was not able to join, please disable the recurring payment, thank you.

If I leave the payment alone, will they welcome me back into the club? Or am I out any way you look at it?
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
duanebarry
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The merchant (ie, Real Secrets) can indeed cancel a recurring payment:

http://www.wikihow.com/Cancel-a-Recurring-Payment-in-PayPal

The burden should not be on the customer, especially since the customers in many cases were unaware when paying (read the old threads!) that this was an auto-recurring payment. Paypal buries the recurring payment maintenance section within their website -- finding it and cancelling is not obvious, and will be difficult for the techno-clueless.

It should suffice for the customer to notify Real Secrets that they wish to cancel. Real Secrets can and should honor that request, not treat their customers as prisoners who must pass a technology test in order to escape, with a $150/year penalty for failing.

In the case of BatsMagic, the responsibility fully lies with Real Secrets, since RS kicked him out. For his account to be charged a year after RS kicked him out is reprehensible.
DelMagic
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Good find duanebarry! When I searched PayPal itself I didn't find this information.

Obviously RS should have made sure this was corrected. I don't blame Bats for his failure to turn it off on his end, but as much as this was discussed earlier it would not be unreasonable to think he might have checked it himself. People were publicly posting about turning it off and on themselves - even Richard Kaufman himself. It was common advice to turn it off yourself if you left the program. Poor Bats didn't leave voluntarily, so his confusion about this is understandable. Many people would probably have checked their PayPal accounts soon after getting booted to make sure those "dervisive term of choice" people in RS couldn't get any more of their money. However, RS was clearly wrong to not terminate it on their end.
duanebarry
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As noted, it's not easy to find in Paypal.

I never saw it myself until I specifically went hunting for it a month ago.
FrenchDrop
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I can name that tune in
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Quote:
On 2013-02-26 13:31, duanebarry wrote:
The merchant (ie, Real Secrets) can indeed cancel a recurring payment:

I wondered about that. It seemed strange to me that Real Secrets could know if you canceled the recurring payment (they must know when that happens, since they've booted people for it, billmarq being one of 'em) -- and yet not be able to cancel the recurring payment from their end.

Probably just an oversight on RS's part, rather than spite or avarice...but they should've had their act sufficiently together to make sure they didn't automatically charge someone for Year 2 almost a year after kicking that person out. At the very least, they should've informed him he was kicked out and let him know he should cancel the recurring payment from PayPal. Weak tea.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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