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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » PHATHOM by Brandon Queen New Ebook (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Olympic Adam
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Quote:
Brandon Queen wrote:

I can assure you that we lead very oppposite lives, as I'm surrounded by LOTS of wonderful friends who feel quite different than you and would be happy to be "honest" about their experiences with me and my offerings.

Proves my point, you focus just on the negative and feel empowered by spreading your negativity.

Whether you're able to perform them, and whether it's possible to perform them are two different things. Any skills or performance experience you may lack is no reflection of my material. This material is suited best for performing professionals and experienced mentalists.

You obviously didn't put any effort into testing out any of the material before expressing your dissatisfaction with me either. Believe it or not, this material was designed out of REAL PERFORMANCES and was released for the intention of others performing them, not sit and think about them, and write about them.

You claim you're doing others a service by "warning them" to NOT purchase my work. It's one thing to simply share your opinion of the material, it's a whole other thing to attempt to interfere with my business. If you truly cared about others being "misinformed", you would have expressed those thoughts to me privately, to come up with a solution to be more clear about what Phathom is and what it isn't. If you would have taken the time to actually read the reviews, and quotes and everything I've mentioned about the book in this forum before purchasing, including clarrifying any misconceptions or questions you may have had when I offered to address any of your concerns before buying, you could have saved yourself $45.00.

I do need to breifly clarify something that was brought to my attention by one of my buyers; TELEGEUSIA requires speaking English in order to perform it right away. It can be done in other languages but it would require a bit of work. R.A.M. and TELEGEUSIA II are cultural dependent. Meaning they primarily work in western culutures.

These limitations do not mean that they are not workable in other languages or cultures. The entire methodology, concepts and structure of the above mentioned routines are adaptable to other languages and cultures, but will require a bit of extra work.
-Brandon

It's clear that you and anyone else who purchases PHATHOM is well aware of what they are getting. It seems as though you're just trying to plug your blog and create some controversy to gain some followers. Good for you.

Adam, clearly you're not understanding what I'm trying to say, and what you're even saying.

The fact is, your entire review of PHATHOM was driven by your own frustration of not understanding the material, rather than actually be helpful. Not to mention some controversal content for your blog.

You would think someone who appears apprehensive to spend a measly 45 dollars on an e-book would have done a bit more research before buying.

You should post a blurb in your blog about the importance of not being ignorant and compulsive when purchasing a product. That seems a bit more productive and helpful.



these are things I take as 'attacks' since you used the term

- you implied that I am not honest and that by having friends you are better than me
- you said I get some kind of power from being negative - I mentioned on the blog how difficult I found it, but how I felt it was justified
- you criticised my performing ability, you said I lack performing skills and ability implying that the fault is with ME not the material

- you said I didn't put any effort in, when in actual fact I did, it would have been easy to post a quick review after reading but I didn't, I waited about 3 weeks and tried the stuff out
- you imply that I don't actually perform anything

- you claim I am interfering with your business by posting honest opinions
- I DID read the reviews and guidances they are incorrect

I speak English in an english speaking country and I live in a Western culture as directed in your comment

- you imply that I did this to get some controversy and followers, get over yourself
- you imply that I do not know what I am saying

- you imply that I did this from my own frustration of not understanding the material, I believe you do not understand what you wrote in the first routine!

- you called me ignorant and compulsive, I waited a long time before writing the review to make sure it was neither of these things, I have discussed it with other people and came to my own, thoughtful conclusions

These are the instances of attack - all because I gave an honest opinion, great, thanks!
Brandon Queen
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I implied?.. no you inferred.

I never implied by me having friends I was better than you. I was simply retorting to your coment about me having all my "friends" post biased reviews. Way out of context there.

Quote:
Any skills or performance experience you may lack is no reflection of my material.- brandon


I said, "you may" as in, any skills you may OR may not lack. May = unknown to me. However, now that I reflect on it, specifically your coments about cold reading, there is a lot of truth to it. I'm not suggesting that you are an imcompetent performer, just the mere fact that it does take a lot of work and experience to utilize cold reading.

Quote:
you said I didn't put any effort in, when in actual fact I did, it would have been easy to post a quick review after reading but I didn't, I waited about 3 weeks and tried the stuff out- you


Again out of context. I said,
Quote:
You obviously didn't put any effort into testing out any of the material before expressing your dissatisfaction with me either- me


I was clearly referring to your PM you sent me 30 min after I sent you the book.

Quote:
you claim I am interfering with your business by posting honest opinions


Again out of context, I said,
Quote:
. It's one thing to simply share your opinion of the material, it's a whole other thing to attempt to interfere with my business.


You were doing much more than just sharing an "objective opinion". Your intentions for starting this whole thing is quite evident.

Also, I didn't call you ignorant and compluslive. I merely suggested it as a topic for your blog. I think it would be a very interesting read.

So those were the "instances of attack" you were referring to? They read more like instances of defense to me. Although I can see how a few things might have been taken the wrong way, and I do want to sincerely apologize for anything you may have inferred as a jab or insult. If I could take it back, I would.

You keep referring to your opinion as honest. Quite contrary Mr. McClure.

BQ
It occured to me at once that love could be a great illusion, that makes fools of brilliant thinkers everyday
Olympic Adam
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I would accept your apology if you didn't keep calling me dishonest
THB
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This thread is boring... why don't you take your little argument in mp and let other people concentrate on the product.
Olympic Adam
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I've stated my views on the content and was attacked for them - I have nothing further to say here
THB
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Exactly and should you have stopped there,.

that's what happens when you do critics (to use the movie analogy again).
if you think your mission in life is to do mentalism reviews, then do them and leave it at that. if you start reacting to people who are not happy when you do negative reviews then YOU are becoming unprofessional.

and if you think that your mission in life is to mentalism reviews then surely you should be yourself above all scrutiny, don't you think?
I see nowhere on your site, who you are,what gives you the credibility to review and critic someone else work?
as far as I know you're just "some " guy. you are not a "name" in the business.

if on one side I have ran pink, J finley, and other people whose work I respect and on the other side I have.... you, why should I listen to your opinion ?

What is your credibility?
What is your story?

you know that's what happens when you decide to go in the light. Just who are you?

Please don't get me wrong, I don't deny the importance of independant reviews. I just want to know who is doing it, and I expect professionalism from that independant reviewer.
Both things you lack.
Olympic Adam
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I don't jump about who I am or what I do, I hope my experience and thoughts come across in the reviews

the point of the review is that it's from a regular person, the people who generally buy items and perform them, not someone's friend, not someone who will want a reciprocally nice review a regular person

the reviews are based on my experiences and performances and should be taken as what they are, you don't have to read them, you don't have to agree with them, but they are valid
I will fight for the ability to give my opinions, which sadly I have had to do here - people get sold more and more crap every day, the more we accept it the more we will get - if people don't express their views they will just get trampled on

once a product is released, anyone has the ability to purchase it and post their thoughts, I'm not a professional reviewer I'm a guy who buys stuff and posts his honest opinion, you don't have to listen to it
THB
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If you put yourself forward as a "critic" you have to deliver.
you don't.

and you are right, I don't have to listen to your reviews and I wont anymore.

Not because you gave a negative review of PHATHOM. I happen to also think its not for me, I don't have the skill level for that.

but because I don't relate to you or your experience. I still don't know why your opinion should matter to me and also because of your poor management of this thread.

to review is to give an opinion, which you did. everytrhing after that was insult. the" junk" folder was completely uncalled for.

you are not yet the independant reviewer I am waiting for.
Olympic Adam
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That's a pity THB, I respect your decision though
THB
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In the real world, now would be the moment when you do everything to can to NOT loose one potential "client". now is when you give your credentials, now is when you explain why I should listen to you.

but no, you just give up. I don't understand that.

I gave you a chance you didn't take it
disapointed I am.
Olympic Adam
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I'm not here to justify and plead with people that they should read my words,

I post my words for those who want to read them, you have decided not to, that's fine

I'm not selling my reviews, they are there to be taken as desired

rising and responding to things is why this thread is in the mess it is! (i include myself in that)
cpbartak
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First of all, you started the attack by saying you should have left this in the junk mail folder, don't act like you're a victim here. Try pouring yourself into developing a creative project of one type or another, and then have someone turn around and say that about your hard work and effort, and see how you feel. I happen to really like this release, really appreciate the work that Brandon put into evolving Joshua's ideas, and am including some of this material in my repertoire. However, I see a few people from other countries who have said that some of the material is unusable for them in its current form. I am not in their shoes, so I can't appreciate the experience of reading the book from that perspective, and how I would feel about it. The thing is, by not providing any context for your reviews, without you saying what kind of venue you perform in, what your character is, what your background in mentalism is, etc., I can't take your reviews seriously. I personally disagree with half of your reviews, and find several of the products that you have given positive reviews for to be either a) catering to fooling performers rather than entertaining audiences or b) half-baked ideas that are in serious need of a logical disconnect. I can appreciate that other people have a different opinion than myself, though, and so if I ever gave reviews I'd be sure to provide some performance footage of myself, and give some of my history, so people can judge for themselves if my perspective would be applicable to their own. By not providing information about yourself, such as your background in performing and knowledge of this material, however, how would someone know if your reviews would be applicable to their performing persona or performance venue? The way you're talking in this thread about your mission to let people know what's good or bad in a very black and white way, you act like your personal perspective of what's good or not should be universally applicable, which is ridiculous, because no one's is.
Some people hear voices.. Some see invisible people.. Others have no imagination whatsoever.
Olympic Adam
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I always say my reviews are from my perspective

I'd love to read other people's reviews but it seems that most of the ones around these days come from friends of performers

of course the reviews are my opinion, and of course I think it's right - take it for what you will

I'm happy for people to disagree with me as long as they have a reason to, that's the beauty with art
cpbartak
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I've never met or spoke to Brandon prior to purchasing this work. What IS your perspective than? I don't see it listed anywhere on your site. Does your site say how many years you've been reading mentalism material? Performing it? What your character is? How are we supposed to know what perspective the reviews are coming from? We're not bloody mindreaders Smile I find Jheff's reviews much more informative, even though he's a dealer. At least he's released stuff and tells us abouthimself enough so we understand where he's coming from and if his opinion might differ from our own, and why.
Some people hear voices.. Some see invisible people.. Others have no imagination whatsoever.
Olympic Adam
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I'll take that into consideration cpbartak, thanks for the feedback, but I'll not post it in this topic

I'll bear it in mind for the next review
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On 2013-06-08 11:15, cpbartak wrote:
First of all, you started the attack by saying you should have left this in the junk mail folder, don't act like you're a victim here. Try pouring yourself into developing a creative project of one type or another, and then have someone turn around and say that about your hard work and effort, and see how you feel. I happen to really like this release, really appreciate the work that Brandon put into evolving Joshua's ideas, and am including some of this material in my repertoire. However, I see a few people from other countries who have said that some of the material is unusable for them in its current form. I am not in their shoes, so I can't appreciate the experience of reading the book from that perspective, and how I would feel about it. The thing is, by not providing any context for your reviews, without you saying what kind of venue you perform in, what your character is, what your background in mentalism is, etc., I can't take your reviews seriously. I personally disagree with half of your reviews, and find several of the products that you have given positive reviews for to be either a) catering to fooling performers rather than entertaining audiences or b) half-baked ideas that are in serious need of a logical disconnect. I can appreciate that other people have a different opinion than myself, though, and so if I ever gave reviews I'd be sure to provide some performance footage of myself, and give some of my history, so people can judge for themselves if my perspective would be applicable to their own. By not providing information about yourself, such as your background in performing and knowledge of this material, however, how would someone know if your reviews would be applicable to their performing persona or performance venue? The way you're talking in this thread about your mission to let people know what's good or bad in a very black and white way, you act like your personal perspective of what's good or not should be universally applicable, which is ridiculous, because no one's is.


Utter nonsense.

Did Pauline Kael, the legendary film critic have to post her credentials before she wrote her magnificent reviews for the New Yorker? Nope. She didn't have any. Had never as much stepped onto a film set in her life.

Did Kenneth Tynan, the equally legendary English theatre critic have to post his credentials before writing his magnificently inciteful reviews of Olivier etc in the 1950s?
Nope. He didn't have any. Hadn't stepped on a stage in his life.

Are the incomparable John Ruskin's critiques of Victorian Art worthless because he wasn't much cop with oils himself. Nope. Yet his reviews defined art for half a century.

They all started writing seriously and honestly about art forms they loved. That is all we should ask of a reviewer. And the game has changed now. We are in the age of the amateur online blogger/reviewer. That's what Adam is. He doesn't have to prove anything to any of us, any more than online movie reviewers have to prove they know what a match cut or crossing-the-line is.

Once you ask people to pay to watch your film, read your book, attend your exhibition etc you invite critical comment. I am a professional actor. I have been in TV shows in the past that have been mauled by the critics both on TV and in the national press. It isn't fun to know all of your mates are reading that your latest work is s*** after weeks and months of hard graft. Guess what, all my friends and family always think I am great. My actor friends are kind enough to say I am terrific (I say the same to them when they are s***). It would be absurd for them to pile in online to defend my honour after bad reviews, and even more absurd for me to do so. It is considered embarrassing in the acting game to publicly reply to critics, far less amateur online ones.

Why should magic be any different? We are doing something worth serious consideration. Not some silly little hobby, right? The prices creators charge for their products would seem to suggest they think so.

Keep up your reviews Adam. I think they are almost all way wide of the mark and often gibberish, but I enjoy them all the same. I take them for what they are. One man's opinion. Don't let the b******s grind you down!
THB
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It is different. the usual complaint about creator is that its all a rehash of an old effect from say annemann. and on the part of the customers it is important to know if it is or not.
I expect from a critic to be able to enlighten me as to the history of the effect. if B. Cassidy tells me the effect is good but its only a watered down version of Hoy effect called " ***" then that's wothwhile info.

I want to know that my independant reviewer knows his mentalism history. if the guy is just like me ( which is what olypic adam seems to pride himself for,that his USP) then there absolutely no added value for me.

once again I really value the idea of an independant reviewer ( rather than a guy with no friends) but I need to trust his knowledge and experience.

to compare olympic adam with Pauline Kael is like comparing "le prix du public" with the "the best photo" . one is critqued by public the other by its peers...
Brandon Queen
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My actor friends are kind enough to say I am terrific (I say the same to them when they are s***)


That's awful. The relationship I have with my friends is far from that sort of dynamic, Martin. Even the less confrontational ones would rather just not say anything.

For the record, I only gave a very small handful of my friends a peer view copy, and of that small few only a couple gave me a "review". a PRIVATE review. Those few friends recieved a copy, because those are the few people that have seen me perform these effects in person, and I had already shared the methods with them. I simply asked them if the explanations were clear and thorough. It was actually my friends who encouraged me to release the very material I showed them in the first place. I have wonderful friends!

Comparing an instructional/how to book on a particular subject to a movie is apples and oranges. I feel it's closer related to comparing a critique to my actual live show.

Again I'll reiterate, because for some reason a few people keep reading over my words. I am thankful for Adam taking the time to give an "honest" review. (honest in how he FEELS but not honest about the content)
He made SOME valid points, and again I'll acknowledge those points. Which are regarding the practicality of 3 of the routines for people outside of the united states. Adam keeps saying how he's not allowed to have an opinion and martin keeps defending the right to have an opinion through analogy of the movie critic.
No one here is arguing that a person doesn't have the right to express their opinion of a product. That's not what this debate has even been about. Also I understand that these effects don't fit his personality style both in presentation AND in method. That is totally fair for him to feel, think and say. He has the right to a subjective opnion

However, he keeps refering to his opnion as objective which it is not. To say that the presentations are incomplete, the methods are incomplete and misquote me out of context is a complete unfair, untrue, inaccurate review. THIS is where I have an issue. It would be untrue for me to say I can care less whether Adam is/was happy with his purchase or not, because with every single person who puchased my book through me directly, each recieved a personal email, asking them to tell me their HONEST opinion of the book. Adam was one of those 50 people. Out of all 50 people, I recieved two dissapointments. Adam is one of them, the other one got a refund.

I feel I'm doing a pretty good job to take care of MY customers, to make sure they are happy after they purchase AND informed before purchasing. It's a LOT of work and it's not easy.

What I've gathered from Adam's blog, is that the material doesn't suit his performance style, three of the routines he cannot perform straight out of the box without extra work, and he feels he wasted his money. Those are all very valid and fair. It's completely his opinion and I respect it. I lost respect when he made the junk comment, and when I found out he was misquoting/exaggerating about psycho dysphagia, and saying my methods and presentations are incomplete which is NOT true.

How can I make myself any more clear on what this is about?

BQ
It occured to me at once that love could be a great illusion, that makes fools of brilliant thinkers everyday
Martin Pulman
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Hi Brandon,

I don't want this debate to ruin your thread any further (though to be honest I think it has been worthwhile and stimulating, certainly more so than a lot of threads that seem to be composed of people discussing the minutiae of their local postal delivery services).But forgive me if I reply one final time to your comment above.

re Friends)
Trust me, when you are an actor you know when you stink and you have enough professional and amateur people online telling you how s*** you are without your mates joining in! A true friend pats you on the back, tells you that you were the best thing in the play and takes you for a pint.

re Critical Reviews)
I can't agree with your apples and pears comment. The end product of an actor's labours is a film or theatre performance; the end product of a writer's labours is a novel; the end product of a songwriter's labours is a song. The end product of a magic creator's labours is a magic effect. That is seperate from any performance of said effects. Some magic creators are not professional performers and most perfomers are not creators. You are both. But we are discussing your work as a creator. Therefore I feel my analogy holds.

re Adam's Blog)
I said at the very start that you have every right to be angry if Adam's review is factually incorrect. It was the unseemly personal slights I was defending Adam against. I did so because it seems to be an all too frequent tactic on here to personally attack anyone who posts a critical comment. I honestly think it is a form (admittedly mild) of bullying. But I equally think Adam's "junk" comment was uncalled for and should have been retracted. There should be no place for personal abuse from reviewers or reviewed, or friends of the reviewed.

Anyway, as I have said, in the end I probably suspect I have more in common aesthetically with you than I do with Adam. I was writing about a point of principle. I wish you every success in the future with both your writing and performing.

Regards,
Martin.
Brandon Queen
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It has been an interesting thread indeed.

You are right about friends being encouraging and telling you what you want to hear. There is truth to that. My family and friends outside of the magic community do that when they feel I need it. I'm specifically referring to my friends within the mentalism community. They are bruttaly honest. We all are with each other. That's the only way we get better. We are a very small, tight knit community. Not all, but at least the ones I surround myself with.

Anyway Martin, your thoughts are much appreciated. Given me a few things to think about. Thanks! Smile

BQ
It occured to me at once that love could be a great illusion, that makes fools of brilliant thinkers everyday
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