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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » PHATHOM by Brandon Queen New Ebook (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jerome Finley
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Quote:
On 2013-06-05 17:30, Olympic Adam wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-06-05 06:44, Pfauntschi wrote:
Sorry guys if I am a bit late on this, but it sounds really interesting... are there any language barriers or limits? I speak german, that's why I am asking (:

Best,
Daniel (:


I found many many barriers with these effects despite being in english speaking western europe, if I can bring myself to get it to the point I like things to be before reviewing them, I might give it a review

if you take it as read, I couldn't do 3 of the effects, one of them contradicted itself, there were two good ones from memory

The presentations are all great but it feels like pipe dreams for me, I'm sure they will work for some but not a good purchase for me


Regarding the issue of "pipe dreams", it's obvious that you've never met Brandon or you would see that he actually performs the stuff he writes about.

Personally speaking, I've known the guy for a number of years now, and, he's been working on and using the routines shared in "PHATHOM" for just as long (if not longer!). The last time I connected with B. Queen in person was at last year's Mindvention and he performed a pet-routine of his straight out of the book.

I told him afterwards, and he can quote me on this, "That was one of the very best things I had seen in a long time and certainly a personal highlight of mine from the entire convention, thank you!"...and this, WITH NO PROPS, in a crowded restaurant and seated at a full table of his peers.

Putting it out there,
Jerome.
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Olympic Adam
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I said I'm sure it would wok for some, not for me

The presentations read well but due to various reasons, I am unable to perform them, not because I don't own a gimmick but because I don't live in America or that I feel there are holes in the effects, I'm sure they do work in certain circumstances, though it seems not on the scale appropriate for worldwide release

To compare with another initially US oriented effect T.A.C., there are numerous adaptations that make it appropriate for me to use

Unfortunately on face value this is one of my most regrettable purchases
Olympic Adam
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I reviewed this at my blog today, it wasn't an easy thing to do but I feel pretty strongly about the issues I raise.

My goal is to inform people of what I would like to know, and hopefully I have done that.
brehaut
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I purchased today--does Brandon email this or does it download from the site? Thanks
Olympic Adam
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There was a download link in my junk folder
Olympic Adam
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Lol probably where I should have left it
Martin Pulman
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Thanks for the review Adam. I was tempted by this, but as a UK resident I think I'll pass.
Olympic Adam
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On 2013-06-07 16:55, Martin Pulman wrote:
Thanks for the review Adam. I was tempted by this, but as a UK resident I think I'll pass.


I hope I provided some useful reasons to help you make the decision, I don't want to put people off a product because of my ill feelings towards it but I want people to make an informed purchase
I think the dependency on US culture should be explicitly mentioned on this, I don't even believe it's easily adaptable as some other effects are
Brandon Queen
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Quote:
There was a download link in my junk folder, Lol probably where I should have left it


Wow.. that was really rude and uncalled for Adam. Thanks for that... really...

I explicitly said to you in a PM when you were inquiring about the book, "If you have any questions about the material before purchasing, please feel free to ask." Which you declined.

I also offered you my valuable time to give you FREE consultation to come up with solutions to any hurdles you may have had and to help you come up with presentations that may fit you, which again you declined.

Oh and don't forget about the 15% discount you were offered as well in response to your initial inquiry.

After you read the book, and sent me your concerns via PM, and I offered you free consultation you said, "The ideas are solid, the presentation ideas are great, it just might take a bit of work to get to the point that I can run with them.Thanks for your time, I'll be in touch I'm sure!"

Yet your blog completely contradicts that statement entirely. It appears as if you're very focused on attacking me and have absolutely nothing positive to say about me or PHATHOM which clearly reflects that you have a very negative outlook on yourself and those around you. Your blog tagline which states,

"Honest Mentalism reviews from a man with no friends" says it all, and I'm not surprised.

I can assure you that we lead very oppposite lives, as I'm surrounded by LOTS of wonderful friends who feel quite different than you and would be happy to be "honest" about their experiences with me and my offerings.

As most mentalists are aware, a bad idea, thought, or review is always remembered and talked about more than positive things, (which is sad) but true. So you very well knowing that, it's quite clear and apparant that your intentions are to specifically attack me and my business as a sort of "revenge". But the question is, why?

It's simple, you feel you were cheated out of your money. You have every right to feel and express those sentiments. However, I feel you approached it in a very wrong, malicious way. You could have simply asked me for a refund, and you probably would have recieved it. Also you neglected to take my offer of consultation or take your concers directly to me. You've decided to make it public and be "robin hood" so to speak.

I read your blog, and it's compeltely contradicting to what you told me in PM. I understand there are certain hurdles you have with three of the routines, yet you go on to attack every routine in the book, having absolutely nothing positive to say.

And just to clear one thing up, the warnings I put in the book about Psycho Dysphagia are for MY protection. I have never once, nor has anyone I know who performs it injured anyone. You have to understand, a 12 year old could get their hands on this material, and perform something incorrectly. It's a way to save my own a**. Interesting how the only thing you remember or focused on was that sentence ,rather the rest of the explanation. Proves my point, you focus just on the negative and feel empowered by spreading your negativity.

For what it's worth, I do sincerely apologize for you feeling mislead or cheated in anyway as that was never my intention. I have been performing these routines for a long time, and they all work brilliantly and accurately exactly as described and I wanted nothing more than to share my ideas with my community.

It would be appreciated if you kept your comments and concerns professional and accurate.

Thank you.

BQ
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bdekolta
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Olympic Adam - a big part of your review states that you can't do the routines for one reason or another. You also state the author has offered to help you with this yet you didn't avail yourself of that help. I think it would be interesting for you to accept that help and update your review after that help. As in it did help or didn't help, I understood/misunderstood certain effects, etc. That would be fair to the creator/author and the information could possibly be of use to others in a situation like yours.

Full disclosure I know the author but have not discussed this with him.

~ Dan
Olympic Adam
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It was not an attack in any form, and was I feel information that needed to be stated, your question is key, why would I want to attack anything? it's not an attack, it's my honest opinion after paying my money on a product, I said in the review that I had messaged you and you seemed a nice chap
I believe people value my opinions (certainly some feel that way) and often people here just hype products

I didn't have questions before I bought it because I took the effects at essentially face value - that I would be able to perform them
I didn't take you up on the discount, hence stating that I paid full price for the effect in the review
I didn't take you up on the private consultation (which I mentioned in the review) and the fact that you said FREE implies to me that you might have considered charging to fix the routines!

I honestly believe that this is one of my most regrettable purchases
MY comments are accurate, they are my comments from my point of view

I said in the blog that they were good ideas, they just don't work this is true
I felt very strongly that I didn't like the material, however, I waited and did what I felt was right and actually tried the material as much as I could before giving a review as to avoid an initial gut reaction

regardless of putting warnings in the book, those are still valid points about the effect, a warning on a spike routine with a participant's hand isn't enough to stop it being a ridiculous thing to do

I have spent some time with the book and those are my full honest opinions - I feel I have completely wasted my money
And as I feel that I have wasted my money, I wanted to express why so others wouldn't have the same fate, sorry that you felt it was an attack but maybe friends telling people they are great all the time isn't the best thing ever

and yes - the point of my blog is that I don't have friends and can say my honest opinions on whatever I purchase - no one is pushing products on me to stick my name on, I'm buying them like anyone else and providing information I would have liked to have

as soon as anyone says anything that isn't positive they get attacked - I don't see why my views should be quietened - if anyone wants to know what I think on it, it's in the blog - apparently because I don't like something I should keep quiet
Olympic Adam
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Quote:
On 2013-06-07 18:22, bdekolta wrote:
Olympic Adam - a big part of your review states that you can't do the routines for one reason or another. You also state the author has offered to help you with this yet you didn't avail yourself of that help. I think it would be interesting for you to accept that help and update your review after that help. As in it did help or didn't help, I understood/misunderstood certain effects, etc. That would be fair to the creator/author and the information could possibly be of use to others in a situation like yours.

Full disclosure I know the author but have not discussed this with him.

~ Dan


I understand what you are saying but I don't want to have to do homework on something that I feel should work out of the box - I have tried myself to work round it but to no serious avail yet, also not everyone who buys this will have the luxury of having some of Brandon's time to complete the effects so on that merit I feel that the review stands as my opinion on the ebook as a stand alone document - if an update were to be provided I would gladly look at it which may change my mind but I have to look at the package as I purchased it which was and is, unusable
Martin Pulman
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Don't worry Adam. This is just symptomatic of what has gone badly wrong around here.

If people want to charge others to learn their secrets they are not "sharing" as Mr Queen and others on here claim. They are selling. That is absolutely their prerogative but it is absurd to then claim, as Mr Queen appears to do above that negative reviews hurt his business! Of course they do. Negative reviews hurt the film business, the music business, the book business. But can you imagine Steven Spielberg coming onto the IMDB boards and claiming people shouldn't post that Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skulls is s**t because they are hurting his business!

If magic and mentalism wants to be taken seriously as an art form it is time for its practioners to grow up and behave in a way worthy of an art form. Can you imagine the new Scorcese movie coming out and all the ad copy came from friends and aquaintances of the director!?! It would be ludicrous. And then imagine a film forum were Marty's mates came on to tell you they have seen the movie at private screenings and wax lyrical about how extraordinary it is. No one would take it seriously. In fact, pre-release reviews transparently by friends of the cast/director of movies are regularly ridiculed on imdb.

Imagine further if after you posted some negative comment or other on imdb, the director came onto the thread to tell you your opinion was worthless as you have never made a film or clearly don't understand the complexities of modern cinema-they'd be laughed out of town!

Yet that is what we have come to expect from magic products. I have spent about a grand in UK money in the last month on mentalism related material from the last five years, almost all of it hyped to high heaven on threads on here and 70% of it is either plagiarism, DR/IS drivel or completely unworthy of release, IN MY OPINION! And that is the key phrase. MY OPINION!

I don't know Brandon Queen and don't have any of his material. I was intrigued by the demos because he seems to be exploring a field I have had a long term interest in. Pure, invisible compromise mentalism. But if his effects are not practical outside the US the ad copy should say so. That would be the ethical thing to do. That would be "sharing" something with us-the truth!

If, however, Adam's reviews are FACTUALLY incorrect, Mr Queen has every right to be annoyed and has every right to defend the product he is selling.

Perhaps he could tell us if that is the case?
bdekolta
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Martin ~

Thank you for sharing your views. I don't know if Olympic Adam's views are accurate or not for where he lives.

In contrast to what you posted in this case the author specifically offered to help the purchaser get things going. This offer was refused then the review states that the routines "do not work" that the presentations are "only half complete". Other descriptions of one routine are "factually inaccurate", "contradictory".

Another effect he states "one of the effects could hurt my audience." Not having the book you would assume this to be a dangerous effect. It is anything but. Watch the trailer for the book and you will see Brandon do the effect in question including every action that could "hurt the audience". Watch and see if he does anything that you deem would hurt the audience.

My suggestion to Olympic Adam was to take Brandon up on his offer of help and see if he still viewed the material the same way. Seems reasonable. As to Olympic Adams comment about "doing homework" I have never been able to take an effect from a book or video or lecture and perform it without altering either the method or presentation or items used in the effect.

But I am not just whining about this review. I view it as an incomplete review rather than a strictly negative review. Incomplete in that information was offered to help get things going and that was refused. To then turn around and say things don't work just doesn't feel right to me. We have no way to know if the offer to help would have changed the reviewers opinion or if the effects would have proved practical.

I just looked at the ad on Brandon's site and it does not mention the U.S. centric nature of some of the routines. Earlier posts in this thread do acknowledge that.

Again I did read the book and found the descriptions complete and felt every routine was workable. I do live in the US and that may have colored my opinions. I do have a pretty good sense of what will and won't work in actual performance and felt these routines would absolutely be useable.

Hope that clarifies my position a bit.

I also see that Brandon posted while I was writing my previous reply.

So I do appreciate Olympic Adam posting reviews. In this instance I don't feel enough information was present to post an accurate review of the contents of the book.

Dan
Brandon Queen
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Actually, your comment about the junk mail folder was an attack and it was rude. Re-read it.

People value my opinions as well. Nothing in this book is overhyped nor is anything close to a pipe-dream. What you see in my demo video is one take, no actors, or stooges, no pre-show. It's exactly how it happened. (with minor cuts to protect methods)

Quote:
I didn't have questions before I bought it because I took the effects at essentially face value - that I would be able to perform them
-YOU

Whether you're able to perform them, and whether it's possible to perform them are two different things. Any skills or performance experience you may lack is no reflection of my material. This material is suited best for performing professionals and experienced mentalists. You sent me a PM about your disappointment with the material literally less than an hour after I sent it to you. I gave you options to remedy your dissatisfaction, yet you declined my offer. You obviously didn't put any effort into testing out any of the material before expressing your dissatisfaction with me either. Believe it or not, this material was designed out of REAL PERFORMANCES and was released for the intention of others performing them, not sit and think about them, and write about them.

Quote:
I know you didn't pay XX amount to create your own routines, but at the same time I'd hope you would want to make these routines original and unique to yourself anyway, and not perform them exactly as the book describes. All the ideas, methods, tools and concepts are there for your taking.

Also no need to apologize for how you feel, I'm not offended by any means. I just want you to be satisfied with your purchase and get the most use out of the material and I'd be happy to help you come up with some solutions if you want. Let's shoot some ideas back and fourth and I'll help you. Just send me an e-mail.
- Brandon


You claim you're doing others a service by "warning them" to NOT purchase my work. It's one thing to simply share your opinion of the material, it's a whole other thing to attempt to interfere with my business. If you truly cared about others being "misinformed", you would have expressed those thoughts to me privately, to come up with a solution to be more clear about what Phathom is and what it isn't. If you would have taken the time to actually read the reviews, and quotes and everything I've mentioned about the book in this forum before purchasing, including clarrifying any misconceptions or questions you may have had when I offered to address any of your concerns before buying, you could have saved yourself $45.00.

This is on my website:
Quote:
This work is reputation making but be forewarned, this does not come out of the box ready to play. You will need to put some mental work into it. However once that (minimal) work is done then you will have propless and impromptu miracles ready at your fingertips for the rest of your career. So much work has been put into this. I'm thankful to the obvious diligence that Brandon Queen has put into it and these are pieces that will go directly into my toolbox."-DT3


And this in Mentally Speaking:

Quote:
I do need to breifly clarify something that was brought to my attention by one of my buyers; TELEGEUSIA requires speaking English in order to perform it right away. It can be done in other languages but it would require a bit of work. R.A.M. and TELEGEUSIA II are cultural dependent. Meaning they primarily work in western culutures.

These limitations do not mean that they are not workable in other languages or cultures. The entire methodology, concepts and structure of the above mentioned routines are adaptable to other languages and cultures, but will require a bit of extra work.
-Brandon



It's clear that you and anyone else who purchases PHATHOM is well aware of what they are getting. It seems as though you're just trying to plug your blog and create some controversy to gain some followers. Good for you.

Again with Psycho Dysphagia being compared to a smash and stab routine. That is a horrible comparison. There is absolutely no danger in performing Psycho Dysphagia, nor is there anyway one could "accidentally" or "unintentionally" hurt someone performing it. In order to actually hurt someone, you'd have to fully intentionally do it the exact opposite way I describe in the book. I've covered every angle in the book with every routine, to make sure nothing was left out. Also, the part you're referring to, isn't even the method nor is it suggested that it be performed in that manner. It's an additional bit I added for educational purposes only and completness. Re-read the book.

Adam, clearly you're not understanding what I'm trying to say, and what you're even saying. I am all for people expressing their "opinions" and feelings toward whatever they wish. I never once said you should not express that. I'm talking about your comment about my book being garbage, and being pipe dreams. Your thoughts on the Three effects that we discussed in PM are your own opinions and feelings. You even apologized to me for expressing those thoughts and I told you, that you shouldn't feel apologetic at all, as you have the right to feel that way. Do you not remember? Go check your PM!!

I'm referring to what you have to say about the OTHER three routines. It's inaccurate information. You mention that Lacuna makes your audience angry..??!! Interesting. How many times have you perfomed Lacuna to come up with that conclusion?

Quote:
This effect tried to distill cold reading down to a simple process, I don't really agree with this principle. Again for me, assumptions stated as fact.


Again, it's NOT a simple process and any well rounded performing mentalist who would ever use this routine should, and would have a working knowledge of cold reading. not "assumptive facts".

The fact is, your entire review of PHATHOM was driven by your own frustration of not understanding the material, rather than actually be helpful. Not to mention some controversal content for your blog.

You would think someone who appears apprehensive to spend a measly 45 dollars on an e-book would have done a bit more research before buying. All the information was already there, you just chose to ignore it. Also I offered to remedy your dissatisfcation yet you ignored it.

You should post a blurb in your blog about the importance of not being ignorant and compulsive when purchasing a product. That seems a bit more productive and helpful.

BQ
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Atticus R. Cane
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I read the all of the reviews, good and bad, and I still plan on picking this up.
Jerome Finley
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Quote:
On 2013-06-07 18:40, Olympic Adam wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-06-07 18:22, bdekolta wrote:
Olympic Adam - a big part of your review states that you can't do the routines for one reason or another. You also state the author has offered to help you with this yet you didn't avail yourself of that help. I think it would be interesting for you to accept that help and update your review after that help. As in it did help or didn't help, I understood/misunderstood certain effects, etc. That would be fair to the creator/author and the information could possibly be of use to others in a situation like yours.

Full disclosure I know the author but have not discussed this with him.

~ Dan


I understand what you are saying but I don't want to have to do homework on something that I feel should work out of the box - I have tried myself to work round it but to no serious avail yet, also not everyone who buys this will have the luxury of having some of Brandon's time to complete the effects so on that merit I feel that the review stands as my opinion on the ebook as a stand alone document - if an update were to be provided I would gladly look at it which may change my mind but I have to look at the package as I purchased it which was and is, unusable


LOL!

Figures.

You (and many others from time immemorial) want everything to work straight out of the box, yes?

"No work involved" (or you'll give it a bad review), right? Are you !@#$%^& kidding me!?

Ever hear of the "Fantastik", Adam? It's awesome, dude...it might take a bit of practice and presentation though!

;)

J.
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Martin Pulman
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I think Mr Queen's post above does him no credit.

To him, forty five dollars is a "measly amount". It may be a measly amount to Mr Queen but it feels like a significant amount to me. Especially given that I can purchase an incredible, beautifully produced hardback book like Theatre of The Mind for less. A book containing a lifetimes worth of material, honed over decades. I think to call $45 a measly amount shows utter contempt for the people buying-- sorry "sharing" the material. If $45 is considered a measly amount in the "real world" Mr Queen is performing in, I don't think the material will play well for me as I like to entertain everyday people in everyday situations. Not the pampered rich.

Oh, but don't tell me-- if you are a working professional you will see the value etc etc....and what if you are a working professional who doesn't see the value? Do you get your measly $45 back?

I think everyone reviewing a product should state their relationship, if any, to the creator and state how much, if anything they paid for the product. Then we can make a balanced decision whether to buy or not. Mr Queen's reviews are overwhelmingly positive, some are adulatory.

Some of the positive reviews come from friends of the creator-can we trust them? some come from people given the e-book for free-can we trust them? Some come from people who paid full price but have no reputation in the field themselves. can we trust them? We should take none of them on trust, read between the lines and make our purchase on balance. I may well have bought this but the cultural dependant issues probably rule it out for me. I certainly wouldn't be put off by Adam's subjective opinion of the material (I haven't agreed with many of his opinions on his blog)

Mr Queen makes himself look silly and childish by causing such a strop over a dissenting voice among a sea of praise. He also lets himself down by impugning Olympic Adam's motives in posting as he did. That was uncalled for.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:

LOL!

Figures.

You (and many others from time immemorial) want everything to work straight out of the box, yes?
I
"No work involved" (or you'll give it a bad review), right? Are you !@#$%^& kidding me!?

Ever hear of the "Fantastik", Adam? It's awesome, dude...it might take a bit of practice and presentation though!

;)

J.


What a nasty little post.

Wait! Don't tell me! A friend of the creator who didn't pay even a measly $45 for this e-book? Am I right?

Keep calling it as you see it Adam. Don't let the school bullies silence you!
Paul Shirley
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Martin. Imagine that you have friends.... and one of them has sent you a review copy of their latest book. Being the good friend you are ... would you really keep quiet if you thought the material wasn't very good??

Would you then go on a public forum and wax lyrical about a product, that you thought was half assed, purely because the author was a friend of yours?

You wouldn't!?? No... me either. Nor, I imagine, would most of the performers on this thread. . . So please stop flogging that boring dead horse.

As an aside... I use one of the particular effects in this book ALL the time. . . and to deem it 'Dangerous' is preposterous.

Anyway... yeah... just keep 'calling it as you see it' guys. Doesn't come across as nit-picky trolling AT ALL. As you were.....
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