sigh! _- and I should have seen that coming -- just toss out a word and pretend it answers something related to the post.

ageism relates to discrimination against an age group (cohort) especially the elderly. I said nothing that could be considered as discrimination against anyone.

and, the term "younger" does not refer to any age cohort but is relative to "older" and in no way indicates "all"

Now, the claim that this older person must be using a government gifted cell-phone could be considered ageism, but I just view it as an opinion.

Just as I have the opinion that younger people seem more entitled than older folks. I'd be very pleased if you can change my opinion by showing me any evidence
that younger people today (by any definition) have more integrity, accountability and kindness than older folks .

Does your posted link have anything to do with my post or ageism or the old lady? What is your attempting to derail this thread?

You are certianly entitled to your opinion, Laurie. Why don't you start a post by saying, "my opinion is ..." and let us in on what it is?

I don't see anyone else here being required to start a post as you've directed, Ken. I've let everyone in on my opinion several times here. Why must one say it your way? I think there's an ageist mindset stamped all over your posts. I think even your: "Explained the need for a station wagon." is questionable and I suggest perhaps the "little old lady" would, too.

Even if she were little and old?

Ask her. As for the link, Ken, the Frasier clip starts at 0:47 and those viewing the initial scene will see a clear connection to the original post, and to my opinion. I don't expect everyone will watch the entire clip, but even if they do, it's relevant enough to the OP, I think.

I don't think her opinion bears on whether it's questionable or not. I appreciate that your mileage differs.

Why wouldn't her opinion have any bearing? Thankyou for using the word "bears", by the way.

"THE SERVICE MODEL

In the Service Model of aging (click to Home Page), old women are seen not, like other people, as individuals first, but in one of two service roles: either as serving others — the all-giving, all-loving Grandmother, who does not think of herself at all, only the good of her grandchildren or future generations or the planet, and who will feed you cookies— or as needing to be served, the endlessly needy little old lady who will drain you dry."

http://www.oldwomensproject.org/real_life.htm

If you don't know, you're either terribly naive, willfully ignorant, or even more sheltered than living in the woods would have made me believe.

I thought it was a nice story. I'm not sure why you want to bust funsway for whatever slights you imagine he made. 'lightbulb'! Wait a minute! You don't have a free government cel phone do you???

Would that type of person fit Ken's definition of "entitled" (by which he means lazy, unworthy, and actually unentitled, I think) was my point.

See, my question to you addressed your question to Al, in which you asked him to point out where you may have suggested the elderly aren't entitled. That post of yours appears to have vanished, though, which I suppose is why you've decided to take the point up with me now. I'll explain that you've suggested some elderly aren't entitled with the implication that there is a "type of people who would" ask the government for a cellphone but our OP prime example isn't one of that "type".

For the record, I don't live in the woods. And if I did, I don't expect many other than you would see that as a sheltered existence.

Or naive or willfully ignorant, either.



"...Most of the people who make these comments believe they are being 'nice'... The effect of these comments is not nice. If we haven’t learned how to recognize ageism, they can erode our self-confidence without our quite knowing why — there is just a nameless sense that people perceive us as Other.... "

http://www.oldwomensproject.org/real_life.htm

You've got the remember, Laurie, that he also equates potentially life-saving telephone accessibility with flat screen TVs other luxury items that certain people are not "entitled" to.

I remember, Bob.

Thanks Laurie for the link to the OldWomenProject.

a great source for understanding Ageism

I highly recommend that everyone read this article on Ageism, both for basic information, and as a mirror in which to compare their own current views of Ageism and their preparedness for Elderhood.
Especially impactful for me are “causes of Ageism” which map the decline of man’s accountability and determinism in all aspects of actualization and awareness.Ageism:

A Review of the Literature
May 2006
Prepared for:
Calgary Health Region,
Healthy Aging Committee
Prepared by:
Elizabeth Dozois,
Word on the Street Consulting Ltd.
http://www.calgaryhealthregion.ca/progra......2006.pdf

.................................................

for those finding themselves in a potential CareGiver role please get a copy of "ElderSeed" that is used by many ElderCare professions in their training efforts.

.....................................................................

against the background of these three sources I fail to see where any of my statements are "ageism" -- that you see at every turn.

All statements related to age are not Ageism, nor are opinions about a person's abilities at various stages of life. How did I discriminate against anyone?

I feel that it is more interesting to watch young people play tennis than older folks, and prefer discussing world travel with people who have actually done it. Both "prejudices" are related to age but are not Ageism.

A Mentalist may adjust the presentation according to the age of their audience of the moment. This part of "know your audience" and not Ageism. In might be Ageism if the decision is based on an assumption about what an older person might understand or enjoy based on a stereotype. To refuse to perform for a group of teenagers because you feel they may not relate to mind reading as you portray it could be Ageism, or just experience that the audience might be small.

Regardless, I posted this story because I find delight in seeing a person of any age being polite, conscientious and respectful of others -- and enjoying themselves in the process. It never occurred to me that others might make judgements about her or her age. That is Ageism. Why were any judgements necessary?

My selection of the title was based on several other experiences throughout the day in which people of all ages acted with rudeness, lack of respect and an apparent attitude that what they thought to be important should give them special privileges. When I see a car parked in a FIre Zone my thoughts have nothing to do with age or wealth or education. They are acting as if they are "entitled" to not follow the law and thereby endanger others.

It is the contract that made this experience noteworthy. If the person at the counter had been 20 I would still have been impressed.

Do you prefer young women or old women? I prefer lesbians myself. The others are always getting pregnant and having time off and saying they are entitled to.

Ken, whether you realize it or not, "little old lady", for one, is an ageist term. Your comment about "most younger people today" was also ageist. These have already been highlighted and still you ask for examples. There are plenty in your posts and I've mentioned several of them specifically, including the station wagon: "Explained the need for a station wagon"- what does that mean? I gave you the benefit of the doubt on "Thinking she might have locked herself out"...

Hi Bob,

The term "Obamaphone" did not originate with critics of the program, rather with its enthusiastic beneficiaries.

Whatever we may disagree with each other about, we will always be united by our love of animals!

IMO, her opinion wouldn't have any bearing because the term is being used purely descriptively (as opposed to being directed toward her as an insult). If the description is accurate, that's justification enough.

I expect that he meant that station wagons are disproportionately popular among people raising small children - a group that she's probably not a part of. The gardening stuff, though, revealed that although her small-child-raising years are (presumably) behind her, she nevertheless does have other things to cart around.

"Ageism, or age discrimination is stereotyping and discriminating against individuals or groups because of their age. It is a set of beliefs, attitudes, norms, and values used to justify age based prejudice, discrimination, and subordination."
-ERW (ever-reliable Wikipedia).

Clearly, merely using the term "little old lady" is not "discriminating against" someone; that raises the question, "Is it stereotyping?" The answer to that question, similarly, is no (or at least "not necessarily"). It's being used descriptively. If that description is accurate, it's not a "stereotype." A stereotype would be drawing further conclusions about her because she's a little old lady. It's not racist to say that I saw a _____ person at the store today; it's an observation. It's not stereotyping until I infer something else about the person because of his or her race.

Ironically, one could make the claim that one who draws conclusions that someone who uses the term "little old lady" probably has negative, stereotyped views about little old ladies is in fact engaging in prejudice and stereotyping. Political correctness being what it is, it's not surprising that one could catch flak for simply accurately describing someone.

As the talented magician and standup comic Brad Stine said, "I want to see political correctness die in my lifetime. But I want to see it suffer first."

I'm curious as to whether people are on the same page with respect to the word "entitled" in this thread. Are the people saying that [certain] people are "entitled" to a cell phone meaning that people above a certain income level have a moral obligation (and should have a legal obligation) to pay for other people to have cell phones?