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John T Cox Veteran user 385 Posts 
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Prayers for his family.
The real magic is family!
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Tom Fenton.jpg "View Profile") Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts
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I have just found out about Kevin.
I am greatly saddened. May he rest in peace and find the happiness he was denied whilst he was here.
"But there isn't a door"
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Rindfleisch Special user New Jersey 502 Posts
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I have reached out to him in the past and have spoken to him on the phone a few times.
I am so sad to here this has happened. -Joe
check me out on facebook #MAGICTOTD
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Silver_Fang Loyal user San Antonio 282 Posts
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Wait, if people knew he was troubled why did people speak to him under the guise of "tough love". Even if you didn't know, the way the wordings in posts should be phrased in a way that is not so aggresive or stand offish. This is truly a shame that a peer was driven to this, a shame. Says a lot about the community as well, shameful.
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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Kauaii, you'd be better placed to post good thoughts about Kevin, rather than render judgement on people or situations you know nothing about.
Your efforts to scold "people" on the Café accomplish little, if anything at all. Everybody on earth see's themselves as a superior thinker when using hindsight with regards to a troubling situation, but the unfortunate fact is that hindsight isn't available before the sadness occurs. Like I said though, good thoughts about Kevin and attaching blame only makes you feel better, but does absolutely nothing for Kevin's friends and family. |
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Silver_Fang Loyal user San Antonio 282 Posts
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If the nation can have a political debate on gun control moments after a slaughter has ocurred in an Elementary school, I can call out the flaws in the magic community "politics".
My best wishes do in fact go out to the family and all affected by the loss. But I can't shake the feeling that if the magic community gave actual support, there would of been light for them to see and hang onto while they were surrounded by darkness. He obviously needed support, support that wasn't provided through the magic community. Allegedly even joked about in the community. It is monstrous. Treat everyone with respect even when they haven't earned that respect. It reflects back favorably on the reputation that person holds. People may have more experience than another, but that doesn't mean something can't be learned from the new. |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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Kevin had many friends on the Café who attempted to uplift him, and offered him their support over a period of years in some cases.
He was terribly fragile, and lived with those who loved him. Sadly, the power to save him rested outside the domain of all those who knew him. Peace to Kevin. |
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Flyswatter Veteran user 370 Posts
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This is so tragic...I had a feeling it was Kevin...Rest in peace...
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3080 Posts
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He was given lots and lots of support here over the years. There is nobody here that is responsible in any way for what Kevin did. He had many friends here, but nobody knows why he did it. The angry accusation that it's anybody's fault here will hopefully eventually stop.
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts
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Spackle666 Loyal user 234 Posts
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Sadly, like many, when I saw Steve's PM, I immediately thought of Kevin. While I never interacted with him on the Café, I did read many of his posts -- which at times were very personal and clearly troubled. I was always impressed with our community at large for the patience and guidance they offered him--whether he was willing or capable to accept it. I am sorry that his story came to such an abrupt end, Let's all be reminded of that many of those we interact with on this faceless forum may not be cut from the same sturdy cloth as ourselves. Magic is an art of dreams and fantasy--some drink deeper from that cup than others--and frank honesty becomes more difficult to digest when it doesn't dovetail with your fantasy.
And while it is not our place or job to "fix" all those who come here, much less cater to their fantasy (as that doesn't help either)--we could be better at recognizing individual's personal issues and help steer them to resources outside of this digital den. I know many of you did just that, I regret not doing it myself--despite seeing the clear warning signs. My heart goes out to his family.
"it's bad luck to be superstitious."
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3080 Posts
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Laurie, thanks for posting that video.
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billmarq Special user State near Arizona 570 Posts
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Quote:
... But I can't shake the feeling that if the magic community gave actual support, there would of been light for them to see and hang onto while they were surrounded by darkness. He obviously needed support, support that wasn't provided through the magic community. Allegedly even joked about in the community. It is monstrous. Mr. K - I seldom respond to an individual here on the forums because it is too easy to say things the wrong way and make someone angry even when not trying to do so. In this case, I have to tell you that you are absolutely wrong. I can only surmise that you have not read any of the threads started by Kevin over the past couple of years or you would know that you are wrong. In each and every thread it was obvious that he was a troubled individual, and in EVERY SINGLE THREAD several persons responded to him with supporting comments and encouragement. I was actually surprised at the degree of patience and understanding that so many people possessed and their willingness to try to help this troubled soul. So yes, he did receive an enormous amount of support from the "magic community" in spite of your misguided opinion. The fact that a few persons attempted the "tough love" approach (something that Kevin even ackhowledged), or that an occasional inappropriate comment was made, does not in any way diminish the overwhelming amount of good intention and support he received. Let us leave the finger pointing and accusations behind us now. I can only offer my condolences and express my deep sense of sorrow to his family.
Honi soit quit mal y pense.
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bobthemagicdoerguy Regular user I can't remember where I left my 186 Posts
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There are always helpers... I feel it appears they couldn't help enough in this case...
http://www.fredrogers.org/FRC/par-tragic-events.html |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9530 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-04-16 11:22, billmarq wrote: This is very fairly put and more true than not, and well said based upon a much better overall understanding of things here.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb 
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-04-16 01:36, magicalaurie wrote: I can't even get through a whole video now. 
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts
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Honestly, Kevin did not receive OVERWHELMING or ENORMOUS amounts of support here. He received support, no doubt, but it wasn't overwhelming or enormous in any sense whatsoever, as far as I can see. Minimizing his suffering and maximizing our own "goodness" here is certainly not fair, MB, and I think that is what's going on in many posts right now. The record's here and can be seen for itself and it needs work, indeed.
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billmarq Special user State near Arizona 570 Posts
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I am not going into a debate on this matter. I am not minimizing the suffering this man went through, nor trying to maximize the goodness of the Café participants. It is however, a fact that several people entered into his threads with encouraging comments and sympathetic messages. I do agree wholeheartedly that each of us should think twice before we make harsh comments on the "board. It is not right to condemn the "magic community" as a bunch of heartless ***s because those who did care were unaable to make the real difference in this man's life. I doubt that many of us are licensed psychologists.
I made a statement in a thread last year, unrelated to Kevin, that everyone who posts on a board such as this needs to consider his words carefully. Words have meaning. They have consequences, and just because another person is not as "together" as you is no reason to dismiss his feelings. I mentioned how on another board, a friend of mine with a severe alcohol problem made a comment about drinking himself to death and that another person suggested to him that he should go ahead and do it as that way he could die happy. Firtunately, I am an adminstrator on that board and I deleted the remarks. When I mentioned that event here, some idiot responded that I was wrong and it was okay to encourage a depressed person to kill himself. So yes, I agree that not everyone here on the Café is an ideal person or even someone I would want as a friend. My basic point is that the "magic community" is not responsible for this tragedy, nor is it entirely made up of uncaring savages. A number of people attempted to help in whatever manner they could. It might have helped if a few persons had not said anything at all, and at the very least, I hope this tragedy inspires them to be less insensitive in the future. I shall say no more, because as usual I can see that people want to misconstrue the meanings. Or maybe I am just a lousy writer.
Honi soit quit mal y pense.
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3017 Posts
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Those that were taking that "tough love" approach ought to have known better.
It was clear that Kevin struggled with depression - anyone that couldn't see that in his posts had reading comprehension problems. When someone is dealing with depression as severe as his was, you don't tell that person to grow up or snap out of it. That doesn't fly and anyone who thinks that's appropriate really should learn to keep their fingers off the keyboard in these situations. No one here is to blame for what happened and it would be unfair to put that on anybody here. I don't think anyone expected this to happen. That said, we need to learn to read others more carefully and take a different approach with people that might be fragile. We're talking about magic tricks here. No one deserves to be spoken in the way Kevin was by some members of this forum. Those people should be ashamed of themselves. I doubt they will be because people that speak like that often make it a habit and then will defend themselves by continuing to berate anyone who speaks out against them, and that's too bad. Kevin deserved better than what some people here gave him. Yes, he did receive support from a lot of people, but unfortunately others weren't so kind. Let's not pretend that anyone here is to blame for what happened, but let's not pretend like everyone was overly friendly with him either.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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Mb217 Inner circle 9530 Posts
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First, I respect what you think Laurie...Now here's what I think:
I don't think anyone is "minimizing" his suffering here...I really don't. "Minimizing"?...Really??? You may not like how people deal with it but everyone is different. Personally, I have seen a lot more respect and heartbreak here for Fish, now and before. And for one, I don't intend to go back and do any such count as to shirts & skins as to all this. I truly don't see the sense in it at this point. I just remember it, mostly over the time period, as billmarq so succinctly put it. I saw a lot of support for Fish and saw it in different ways, with different words. Because I see it that way and want to remember it that way, is not any example toward patting people on the back or "maximizing our own goodness" as you say. It is just the truth and if you can point the finger at a few and seemingly color it mostly bad as to effort, I don't see how I can see a lot of good that was done and not consider the larger effort as great support worthy of remembering as to Fish, as to a greater humanity in general here. But to each his own as to all that, fairness is in the eye of the beholder I suppose, just depends on how one handles the emotional discharge. I simply gave my opinion and seek nor need any such consensus as to it. *And billmarq, for what it's worth... I think you're a really good writer, and said what you said well and quite exactly in your first post and your second one, too. And you're right, I wouldn't argue about it much either, as healthy minds are just as capable of "misconstruing" meaning and intent as troubled minds, it seems at times. I'm just sayin'.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb
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Posted: Apr 15, 2013 04:21 pm 
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