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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Smooth as silk » » How to hold a fountain closed (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

edhagins
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I'm helping my Granddaughter with her act and need some suggestions on how to keep a fountain of silk closed until the right moment. This is a body steal where the fountain is brought forward under cover of 6 silks that are hanging down from the hand.
The fountain is turned upward and then released. We've tried rubber bands, Hairbands (cloth covered rubber bands), snaps, Velcro, and now are using a band of elastic with another piece of elastic running from one side of the band to the other which gives a sort of handle to pull on. Each way we've tried seems to expose the fact that she is physically opening or releasing something to cause the fountain cascade effect.
Sam Sandler
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I agree with that assessment. Anytime I see some one produce the fountain or large bird you can physically see them reaching and doing some thing.

There are two ways to go here. However this is an open forum so I can not expose the methods here. Shoot me a PM and I will gladly offer my experience with using a silk fountain for the past 10 years.

My daughter also performs a silk fountain and I have been working with her as well to get rid of that tell.

I should also mention that Duane Laflin has at least one DVD with info on the silk fountain but I have never seen it. So I don't know if it talks about the process for the steal and opening.

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
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Bill Hegbli
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I was going to suggest Laflin's but is is like all the others, it relies on Velcro. If you would have does a search in this section, you would have found Richard Hughes suggestion of a bull dog clip.

Again, all these require removal. There is only one way I could think of is by Ali Bongo.

Also Levent uses a body load for a silk fountain in his old manipulation act, this may be helpful.

Also Jay Scott Berry sold his silk fountain of diamond shaped silks for a body load as well.

I don't know the handling you are using, as "brought forward under cover of some silks", could mean any number of hand and finger placements. If picked up as in the Laflin DVD, then just combine the flip over with the release at the same time. Many magicians do things in a split second that are never notices as it all blends together. Trying to be overly fair in the handling will only create additional problems.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
mtpascoe
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I used Dove Pockets for my load and Dove steals as well. Maybe another idea from Dove Magic might help. Slydini has a bag that opens up as it's being stolen. If you can time it to open when you want it to and adjust the bag to fit the fountain, this might work. The details are in the Chavez Dove book.

Since I use the toe of a silk stocking for my bag for the fountains, I don't have personal experience with the Slydini bag. However, as I was thinking about your problem, the idea popped in my head. Worth checking out anyway.
Sam Sandler
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Well being that no one seems to care about exposure here I guess I will make a suggestion or two.

First yes a pocket is you know what, nope I don't feel like exposing magic on open forum. Like I said before send me a PM and I will offer some advice, although the advice you got was pretty good.

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
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mtpascoe
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If one is not a magician, they wouldn't be able to get too much info what is mentioned. I didn't go into the details of the Slydini bag to hold the cabbage. Mainly because it's too complicated. If interested, I can scan it and send it if edhagins wants.
Bill Hegbli
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I made the Slydini Bags and they do not open fully, only partially, so I don't think that is best solution. General Grant's would be a better choice, or the Shamada bag would be excellent.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
mtpascoe
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Thanks Bill for chiming in. Like I said I never tried the bag and I'm glad that you had experience with it to set the record straight. Yeah, some kind of dove bag might work as long as the audience does not see the magician "opening" something.

When I did the fountains, I open the bag and held it back before showing the plethora of silks. I used time misdirection because I knew that was the weak part of the trick. Back then I used a standard silk bag with Velcro like a dove harness before I used the nylon stocking idea.
john wills
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Mtpascoe,
There are also dove harnesses that open with a metal (round) spring, that sewed in the silk.
With these the performer only has to squeeze, to open it.
mtpascoe
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Sounds good. That might be what edhagins has in mind, thanks for sharing it.
jimgerrish
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I like a band of tissue paper colored the same as the outside silk. Get a finger under the tissue ring and rip.
edhagins
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I'm truly glad that there is not one obvious and right answer that I had overlooked! I appreciate everyones Replies. They have given me much food for thought.
I received several PM's from others and have PM'ed several of you for help. what a great community!
Ed
Regan
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Ed, I based my fountains and the holders from Duane Laflin's instructions, but I made mine a little different. I made a section to pull (similar to how your elastic band idea sounds). Mine is a color-matched strap held in place by velcro....just enough to do the job and not overkill. The velcro will almost release itself if I handle it a certain way, so I have to be a little cautious. I have never had a failure (knock on wood!) and I prefer the holder to be kind of 'weak' so it will let go easily. The sound is minimal, and I use music with every routine that my silk fountain is used in, so the noise is not a problem for me. I do not feel my release is noticeable to the audience either. I don't really know how to describe it but it has to do with the way I handle the fountain, and maybe more importantly how I handle the 'cover' silks.
Mister Mystery
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Check out the May 2013 issue of Genii Magazine. You'll find a new, one-handed silk fountain release I developed while working on the Chicago revival of "Barnum."
http://geniimagazine.com/2013/04/may-2013/

Best,
Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
edhagins
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Neil,
I've been out for a while. Thanks for the note. I don't subscribe to Genii but I'll borrow one at the next local Ring meeting.
I'll say again that I appreciate everyone's help with this. So far, we have settled on a bag made from a ladies nylon stocking with a dangling handle to facilitate the removal. It is working well. On a bright note as a proud Grandpa, my Granddaughter, 'LizzyC', has been chosen to appear on the "Stars of Tomorrow" show at this years SAM conference.

Posted: May 19, 2013 6:50pm
Sam,
I sent you a PM some time back. If you still have suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
Ed
Bill Wilson
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Ed,

Get your Granddaughter to use Streamer paper to hold the cabbage together. You can find it at any dollar store and it comes in many different colors. It comes in roles about 80 feet long and 1.75 inch in width. And of course it's dirt cheap. The reason a magician should use this is obvious, at least to my way of thinking. If the fountain is made up of as few as 8 silks or as many as fifty silks and is released in say the right hand, there is absolutely no reason why the left hand should approuch the right hand to do ANYTHING. This just looks wrong. As the right hand and fountain is in face down position the tissue is torn with the fingers or thumb or both depending on handle positoning. The fountain is inverted and the action starts.

The tissue is wrapped around the cabbage quite tightly about three times and is taped with three or four pieces of ordinary Scoth tape. I use lots of tape to ensure it stays done up. The tissue is also taped to the handle so after it is torn it does not fall to the floor. I do up my fountain long before the show and to ensure it all stays together I also use the typical band of ribbon (grow grain or any type) with the velcro fastners. This way it is nice and snug for transportation, it's as solid as a rock. The velcroed ribbon is detached and the fountain is set wherever you have it for the steal. Hope this information is useful. And by the way I use 33 18 in. silks and a 45 incher to conclude so I need something that is save and solid for transport and this works well.
Bill Hegbli
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In the May Genii Magazine there is a method for a closure using a very small clamp from the hardware store. It did not say, but the picture looks like the new spring action wood clamps. Said it was only 3/4 inch clamp. I did not know they came that small. He was replacing the closure on a Laflin Silk Fountain.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Sam Sandler
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Ed - so sorry that I missed that PM. will get a response to you shortly.
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
Necromancer
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Bill Hegbli: look three posts above yours Smile

Here's a link to the clamp from the Home Depot site.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-3-4-in-Mi......5hnBQGFY
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
Necromancer
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I should probably add that the advantages to my Silk Fountain release are that it is:
One-Handed—the hand holding the fountain does everything without any assistance from the other hand
Self-Contained—no tape, paper, or other supplies need to be replenished for reset
Completely Silent—no snapping, no popping, no Velcro ripping, no paper tearing to hear regardless of room size or audience proximity

Once again, here's the link to the May issue of Genii:
http://geniimagazine.com/2013/04/may-2013/

Best,
Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
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