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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
Hi,
the thing that makes me laugh is the amount of people that book me because they have seen me before or been refered that I have to say to at the end of the cal and after they have confirmed verbaly that they want me .. "well do you want to know my charges then?" They get so tied up in if I am available ext they forget to ask the price. Phillip |
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
I love the "I want to book you when are you free around so & So date" calls too Phillip it makes life so much easier.
><<<,Their reaction is "This guy is trying to avoid/stall the question, he tries to justify his price to me!" By the way, I myself hate when people don't give me straight answers. So I try to always answer immediately. >>>> If you don't sell yourself first, you may as well not even bother talking to them. By taking control and asking the questions, and then explaining what you can do for them it sounds like you care more about their event than just the money. Your being helpful and offering advice which is a good thing, especially as most bookers don't really have a clue what they want. Also by selling yourself even if you are actually booked for the date/time they want you may get them to change the date/time of the party to suit you. As well as that you may find after quoting a price without the information that's it's a nightmare gig that you really don't want to do, with the information to hand you can then be fully booked if required. (You never say you don't want to do it, your always fully booked for that date). I was fully booked for 9 months in 1997 during Emazdad's world tour '97. (HMS Somersets South Atlantic Deployment.)
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
As most of the other professionals here have stated or implied, to give your price right off the bat is to lose the job. Period.
First of all, when someone says "what do you charge", I HAVE to know what kind of show (birthday party, adult party, company party), what venue (stage, walkaround, home, etc.), where (in town or, if not, then how far), and so on. Each show has a different price and a reason for that price. So I can't quote one price right at the beginning, even if they insist, without getting some more information. BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with Den: No one can survive on $65 a show. It just isn't possible. :magician: |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Ok, once again people have different experiences of the same situation.
I have not lost any people which asked me the price at the beginning. What HAS happened, is that people who asked for the price in the beginning, and to who I did the pitch talk, got annoyed, and HARDLY booked me. Andy said: "you disrupt peoples buying pattern". Very interesting. Those who have studied the DISC system, knows that people have DIFFERENT buying patterns, and one group of people wants direct answers, and very few facts, and they want them NOW. These are the kind of people who get annoyed if you don't answer them directly. If you have Kenton's Wonder Words pick it out of the drawer, he explains it very good. When I listened to the tapes, the pieces came in place for me. Most times with these people, this is what has happened: The phone rings. The person in the phone says: "Are you the guy who do magic?" "Yes" "How much do you charge?" "$ 65" "Are you free on saturday?" The deal is closed in 5 seconds. I don't do a pitch talk, but I do ask questions about how many children, where, how old is the child etc. It seems to be beneficial. I have also sometimes done that when they have started by asking the price, and in these cases it has worked. I must do what works for me. If your methods don't work for me there's no point using them, and if my methods don't work for you, there's no point using them. I must say though, that to me it SOUNDS like IF you have to do a sales pitch before telling the price, otherwise you will lose the deal, your price is too high. Also, "No one can survive on $65 a show", sounds strange to me. If I did one job a day, I would survive, and if I did two jobs a day, I would live pretty prosperous compaired to now. The problem is that there is not enough interest. I have asked several professionals, both people doing childrens shows and others, if it is possible to live by childrens magic in a town of my size, and they all think it's impossible. Mikael |
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
<<<I must say though, that to me it SOUNDS like IF you have to do a sales pitch before telling the price, otherwise you will lose the deal, your price is too high. >>>>
Don't be so silly, Mikeal, if after all the sales talk people repeatedly didn't book me then the price may be too high. as they do book me it must mean it's not. I don't expect every booker to book me, I just don't worry about those that don't. I had a lady today phone to enquire if I could do her sons birthday party on 6th December, She was trawling through yellow pages for an entertainer, she'd never seen my show before. His birtherday is christmas day so she wanted it early to separate it from christmas, I couldn't do it, told her what I do, told her the price and she's now moved the party to 29th December when I can do it. If I'd played by your methods I'd have lost the booking.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
I must say though, that to me it SOUNDS like IF you have to do a sales pitch before telling the price, otherwise you will lose the deal, your price is too high.
Hi, Not if he is selling the shows at that price if he is getting the asked fee then it cannot be too high! I think sales pich is perhaps a little bit too harsh an expression when someone asks a price I follow along something like this bellow HI, Are you the magician bla bla bla how much do you charge? Thank you for calling. Let me ask you a couple quick questions before we discuss the details about my birthday party entertainment package. What is you child’s name? How old is _______ going to be? What area will the show be in? Thank you I have several packages for you to choose from to suit most budgets The first birthday party package is a magic show that runs for 35 mins the show has lot’s of comedy and audience participation , I make balloon creations for all the children that help during the show and then at the end I make all of the children a Balloon . Provided …………… is willing to help. They get to help with some special magic including making my real live rabbit appear! It’s normally comes as quite a shock to the birthday child when the rabbit appears. So this makes a great photo opportunity for you so it’s better if you do not tell them about the bunny. I also make ……… some very special Balloon creations to help make their birthday a very special day. The whole show is highly interactive and this is extremely important because, as I am sure you know, children don’t want to just sit and watch a show. They want to be actively involved, . which is why I utilize lot’s more audience participation than other children’s entertainers. All of the children get to join in the show some helping me helping me out front and others from sitting in the audience shouting magic words and telling me about things that they see. But I don’t, a bit like in a pantomime. Most importantly, the show is extremely funny and is specifically designed to make children laugh like crazy. In fact, you’ll be amazed by all the laughter you hear and the huge smiles you see. The investment for this show is ………………………………………….. Now, the next birthday party package consists of everything in the first package. Balloons participation ext But it runs for a 45 mins for those people looking for a longer show The investment for this show is ………………………………………….. The third package consists of the magic show exactly as I described at the beginning plus a punch and Judy show . the punch and Judy show runs for about 15mins so the total show with the 35mins of magic plus 15 mins P&J lasts for 50 mins. The investment for this show is ………………………………………….. The next thing I offer are full 2 hour party packages and these are the most popular to be quite honest. As I take care of the whole party apart from you feeding them. The first package consist of 45 mins of games for which I supply all of the prizes, which are pencils, rubbers ,rulers that sort of thing. Everyone at the party will at least win a pencil. The games are specially designed so that everyone plays all of the time no dropping out like old fashioned party games. After the games comes a break of 30 mins for you to feed the children and sing happy birthday. I am happy to lead them in the singing if you would like. Then to end the party we have a 45 min magic show as described earlier. The investment for this show is ………………………………………….. The next package offers a similar format 45 mins games, 30 mins break and then a 45 mins show which consist of 30mins magic and a 15mins P&J show The investment for this show is ………………………………………….. Last but not least the super deluxe package so to speak consist of 30mins of games a 15mins P&J show break of 30mins and a 45mins magic show The investment for this show is ………………………………………….. I think you can see that What makes my shows and packages so special and unique is that they are specifically designed to make …………… the star of the show and give him/her a birthday party that is so much fun that they remember it for a lifetime. Regardless of which package you decide on , I’ll send you a letter of confirmation, confirming all the details. I’ll also give you a call a few days before the show just so you can rest assured I’ll be there and be on time however, I must say I have never been late or missed a show in my 20 or so years of performing. Payment is made on the day after show in the form of cash or check. Those are my entertainment packages in a nutshell, how do they sound to you? (note I change "sound to you" to "feel to you" or "Look to you" depending on what I consider the buyers type to be " auditory" "kinesthetic" or "visual" (I usualy close the sale here but it might continue.......) “I need to talk about it with my husband” I understand completely. If you and your husband decide to go with me, please give me a call back as soon as possible so you’re not disappointed. If you decide to use another performer, please give me a call anyway and for free I’ll be happy to let you know how to best structure your party and most effectively utilize the entertainer you decided to hire. You see. Many of the performers don’t do this on a full time basis like I do and I would like to try and make sure your party runs smoothly regardless of whether you decide to hire me. Once again, I’m Phillip Jones and you have my phone number. And thank you for calling. Phillip |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
<<<I must say though, that to me it SOUNDS like IF you have to do a sales pitch before telling the price, otherwise you will lose the deal, your price is too high. >>>>
That is just silly. It is not good marketing practice to just state a price without really telling the client first how you can solve and meet their own party needs. Part of the process is to always let your client know what you have to offer and how best you can solve their birthday needs. You will not know what their needs are unless you get a chance to talk with them about it. By asking them some simple questions first, you are showing that you care about them and care about giving them the best show they can have. You are also starting to establish a good client relationship from which to build upon.
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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magiker Loyal user Sweden 283 Posts |
When someone asks me the price as soon as they phone the first thing I ask is the date, I then have the initiative. I also have "I want to book you when are you free around so & So date" as they have heard about me. I have even had them re-arrange the dates if I am already booked.
I live in Swedens second largest city and sometimes I have trouble getting bookings. a lot of people that don't live here don't realise that the entire population of Sweden is less than the population of London, some 9 million people and unfortunately where Mikael lives is further north where people and their earnings are less.
Magiker
Believe in the possibility of the impossible |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-11-26 09:07, Mikael Eriksson wrote: To be perfectly candid, you can't really judge if my price is "too high." My price is at the high end in my area, but I do book 9 out of 10 inquiries. Most often, the other 1 is that I simply can't help them on the date they want, and it is too late to re-arrange. Often with birthdays, they choose the deluxe package, because this is what they feel will help them the most. If I quoted my price, without any other information, they would not understand what I do for the fee I quote. Again, read my post above. The customer really wants to know more than price, but they don't really know what other questions to ask. Also, I do not "pitch" to my customers. I am interested in helping them find solutions to their needs. This includes giving them ALL the information, and me understanding more about them. I opt for having a deeper relationship off the bat, and my friendliness pays for itself. I do explain clearly that I will give them ALL the information, and have no people cancel after making a decision to hire our show, because of "buyers remorse". The Gr8 DonaldD.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-11-26 10:00, Emazdad wrote: I'm not sure what you mean... I do exactly the same as you in the situation you describe. I book it another day, etc. Did you think I meant the ONLY thing I do is tell them the price? Again, I use the methods that have proven to give the best results for ME. Mikael |
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Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
Mikael writes: " . . .one group of people wants direct answers, and very few facts, and they want them NOW. These are the kind of people who get annoyed if you don't answer them directly."
That's simply ridiculous. As an example, supposing I walk into a car dealership and say "how much is a car?" The sales person has NO idea what kind of car I want -- a sub compact, a luxury car, a wagon, or whatever. No details, no reference to options, no nothing. It makes no sense. The sales person HAS to ask some questions. And if I don't ask questions first, then after both the client and I going through a long dance, I may find out that I'm book for that day or time period. |
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
<<<<<<Did you think I meant the ONLY thing I do is tell them the price? >>>>>
According to your post yes! I'll quote your earlier post as you obviously forgot:- The phone rings. The person in the phone says: "Are you the guy who do magic?" "Yes" "How much do you charge?" "$ 65" "Are you free on saturday?" The deal is closed in 5 seconds. As you didn't take the time to find out what they wanted how could you possibly have got them to book you for another day?
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-11-26 14:35, Emazdad wrote: Aha, now I see. Ok. That was an example of this kind of personality type. And I knew what he wanted. He wanted a magic show! Surprised? It's very simple since I only have one type of show. Mikael Quote:
On 2003-11-26 14:22, Peter Marucci wrote: I asume that you would ask "How much is THIS car?" If you would ask what you say, of course I would say: "What kind of car do you want?" In the case of my magic show it's very simple. I only have one type of show, so I can answer them directly. Mikael |
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
Interesting, what type of magic show is it?
Is it an adult show, a family show or a childrens show? Do you perform a magic show in front of the kids, or a fun children's show where you magic with them? Is your one type of show suitable for all ages from 4 yrs to 9-10 yrs old? Do you do the 10-15 year old age range? is it the same show? Do you do adult shows? is it the same show? Do you tailor this one show to suit different events?
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-11-26 15:55, Emazdad wrote: Yes. Jokes aside, in my shows, both children and parents watch, but it's mostly for the children. I involve both children and adults. Children all ages can watch. I tailor it slightly to suit different events, but you would think it's the same time after time and year after year. Mikael |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
I offer many, many different shows, for many different customers.
I have multiple packages for birthday customers alone to choose from. Not every show is best for every event. This is based on 25+ years real world experience making a full time living from performing magic shows. Mikael, you have acknowledged that if you handled it differently, you might have given the information rather than just quoting the fee. The point your prospect had about "magicians being too expensive", is a subjective comment. She may not be qualified to make that judgement. Has she talked to other magicians? Does she really understand the value in what entertainers do? Possibly not. So, you should just move on, and only sell your show to those who don't consider you "too expensive." You can't please everybody all the time. As a performer who charges a fee, you will be rejected now and then. Don't let it get you down. Just learn for next time. The Gr8 DonaldD.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
Mikael writes: ". . . in my shows, both children and parents watch, but it's mostly for the children."
So if I wanted a show for a group of, say, retired bishops, how would I ask you? According to you, if I phoned and said how much is a magic show, you would give me a price. If I booked you on that basis, I suspect I would be a little disappointed! Going back to the very first posting here, is there a question or not? I suspect "not"; at least, you don't seem very interested in hearing other viewpoints. |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
People usually know I'm doing shows for kids. In any event it will become apparent when I ask how many children, how old etc.
My first post was both a theory and I wanted to know if I could be correct? I AM interested in hearing other viewpoints, and I tell my viewpoint. I also tell if others viewpoints and methods have worked for me. Mikael |
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
<<<<<<<I involve both children and adults. Children all ages can watch. I tailor it slightly to suit different events>>>>
This is the sort of thing you should be telling the booker before you quote them the price, you have to make it sound more than just a magic show, because it isn't just a magic show is it? Be truthful to yourself it's years of practice and hard work squashed into 45 minutes of amazing fun. A good friendly phone manner and positive attitude is also important, I have a good laugh with the callers, my sales pitch has lots of one liners and funny observations that only parents understand in it. This is important if you want to avoid the reactions you say your getting from people who think your stalling. I often have people who tell me the last bloke they called was very short and abrupt with them, he came across as unfriendly and they book me not him even though the guy is much cheaper than me. <<<People usually know I'm doing shows for kids.>>>> All my advertising points to the fact I do kids magic shows, but I still get enquiry's for close-up, cabaret, bouncy castles, even Paint balling. I often get people phone up wanting the price for a 1-hour magic show and after my sales pitch they tell me they didn't know that people did the games etc as well and end up booking me for the 2-hours. Mikael, The best thing about the Café is the wealth of experience that the members are willing to share. It's not a black and white world, it's a huge grey area where cultural differences mean that not everything will work for you as told. There's lot of things that work for the guy's across the pond, that won't work here in the UK and vice versa, the same applies to all the other countries who's magicians visit the Café. The idea is not to dismiss them out of hand, but to take all the suggestions and play with them, adapt them, mix and match the ideas and use them to come up with a solution that does work for you. You only get out what your prepared to put in. By doing this you may find not only your bookings increase, but once you get to the stage your turning away work because you can't fit it in, you can start increasing your fees and your customers will still book you.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
I know. I get caught up in discussions sometimes.
Mikael |
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