Is it just me or do any of you other folks notice how much magicians whine and cry about petty issues?

For example, go look in the Secret Sessions forum and read the Coin Matrix Thread. After reading about 7 posts I decided it wasn't even worth the time to reply because someone is going to whine about something. I notice this a lot.

Another example is over the beat to death Tilt Move. "Marlo created it! NO NO NO! He stole it from Vernon! No he didn't! blah blah blah blah blah."

Why do magicians do this? There is no reason! Say your piece and let it be that. Yes healthy discussion is good, but petty whining is going to hurt us. When the facts have been stated let it be. No need to beat a dead dog.

I notice this in card forums more then anywhere else. They seem to like to argue about the slightest (no pun intended) things.

Is there something about this group of magicians that makes them more apt to snap back and forth?

Some things just don't make sense!

Chris

NO! NO! NO! - That does not happen, ever. Especially not ever in card forums. You are WRONG! WRONG ! WRONG! and furthermore - BLAH BLAH BLAH!

Hahaha.

Mr. Townsend sent me a PM and it made me realize I didn't quite get my point across.

What I am sick of is all the people whining about things, when facts have been stated and they are to lazy to research anything to find out more. They are the people who are to stubborn to get past their own views.

Chris

Chris writes: "They are the people who are to stubborn to get past their own views."

Good grief! He may be talking about me!

Except that I'm not what anyone would consider a card guy.

If an "underground magician" is a person who know 435 ways to palm a card but not one way to entertain and audience, then a "wannabe underground magician" would be someone who knows the entire history of the ball and vase trick -- but can't do it!

No Peter I am not talking about you. I just think there are to many people trying to flaunt their knowledge (a lot fo them are newbies) which they don't have. You obviously HAVE the knowledge (and I respect you a great deal)

This is also not an attack on card guys. I just notice more bickering in their circles then anywhere else.


Chris

Dang Peter you are describing me!

I know the entire history of the Ball and Vase trick but can ONLY perform 12 of the 238 published different methods for doing the trick, i.e., Malone’s, Daryl’s, Skinner’s, Marlo’s, Jenkins’, Garcia’s, Malini’s (actually Thompsons’ take on Millers handling of the Vernon version of the Malini handling!), Keller’s, Bosco’s, Houdin’s (Not Houdini), Blitz’s, Pinetti’s, and of course the classic version of Isaac Fawkes! Not to mention the Bizarre handling of Docc Hilford, but that’s another story altogether!
:rotf:

I was almost an underground magician. But I managed to escape!


Chris you make a good and interesting observation!

Harry,

And don't forget about the Zucchini Acquitment, the Spinoza Holdout, the VonGoofball Switch, and the Hellzapoppin' Handling!

Zounds!!

That makes 242 different versions! Now it's back to the books for me! I totally forgot them!! It makes me wonder what else I have overlooked in my quest for the perfect Ball N Vase routine!

Maybe, we can't get rid of the problem Seismic posed eternally from Magic Café. I believe we should have ability to sort out good things from it.

Hideo Kato

Chris I agree,This might be one reason that many Café members are no longer posting because of the whinning,,

Lo-Key,
You think it's bad HERE! You should see (or perhaps you do) some of the daily digests -- specifically the IBM's Ring 2100.

Right now there's what appears to be an endless whining going on about illusionists who believe they have been ripped off by someone else. But nowhere is there any indication that these same illusionists have lifted a finger to protect themselves! They all have reasons why they haven't. Hey, if I could get others to do my *****ing for me, I wouldn't raise a finger either!

I have pretty much stopped posting in daily digests like Ring 2100, Shadow Digest, the Electronic Grymoire, and so on, because they all want to take but nobody is willing to give.

That, and the fact that, if you do offer a routine, advice, or even just comments on something, you are exposing yourself to "flames" by lurkers (or even moderators) whose only "joy" in life seems to be attacking others who speak unpleasant truths.

And, yes, the Café seems to be heading in that direction at times. Which is why I much prefer to deal with overseas boards, like the Magic Bunny; far more civilized and less judgmental.

In other words, a lot fewer dorks.

cheers,
Peter Marucci
showtimecol@aol.com

Man, you guys are going to skin me alive for this, but let's face it, Magicians are kinda nerdy. We (and I'm including myself here) are pretty intelligent and have a strong level of focus wrapped up together in a ribbon of fantasy. And when you have these ingredients and then add in a little "secret knowledge", you have some pedantic little twerp just begging to show off his brain sqeezings.

I mean, go into a comic book store and just listen to the trite little debates these guys dive into. "Green Lantern is soooo way more powerful than Superman!" "No way!" "WAY!" This can go on for hours... I know... I've seen it. It ain't pretty.

I agree that a lot of the whining is from newbies who've read a book or two name-dropping and flaunting their abilities in mental catagorization. But, hey, at least they're trying to further something and not completely detract from the paradigm.

But, what do I know? I'm just a big nerd!

Firedice, that is something I have been afraid to say because of getting flamed.

I admit it, magicians are nerds. I am a nerd and proud!

Honestly, who in their right mand is going to spend their time playing with cards and coins or making ropes come apart then go back together, or even make rings link and unlink?

The nerds! I am proud to be a nerd.

Jeeze! I don’t think that I am a Nerd, but I do freely admit to being a “pedantic little twerp”!!!! Nerd – Twerp big difference!

Like Peter, I have pretty much stopped visiting, reading, or posting in any other forum than here. I do lurk from time to time (including the Magic Bunny) but tend to not post or participate. I get tired of being flamed and put down for answering a question (I do believe that my answers are civil IF overlong!).

I believe that some members stop posting simply because they have addressed the issue at least twice before. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen the same question asked here that a little research could have answered. On wallets alone, I have posted a link to my first post no less than three times before stopping making the effort.

Firedice makes a valid point. We are a fairly insulated (inbred?) little group and see the “issues” of our little world as actually being meaningful and important. Frankly, outside our little world who cares?

By the way, NO WAY the Green Lantern is more powerful than Superman!!!

Firedice says, ". . . let's face it, Magicians are kinda nerdy."

Kinda?

We're TOTALLY nerdy.

As the late Gene Poinc said: the world NEEDS carpenters, teachers, butchers, and the like; it doesn't NEED magicians!

Harry Murphy draws a fine line between "nerd" and "twerp"; I respect Harry's words and so I'll side with him and join the "twerps" -- that is, if they'll have me (how's that for a "twerp" response!)

Guys a few things. First off, they say arguing over the internet is like winning the special olympics, if you win, you're still a retard. (no offense to any special olympics winners). The point is all internet message boards are filled with garbage, but this is one of the better ones I've seen. So please Peter, Harry, don't stop posting. Next, as far as being a nerd, I've confronted this attitude in other walks of life. See I have other hobbies besides magic. I play piano, and I play a variety of "nerdy" games, wargames, collectible card games, ect. In America these things are considered nerdy to the extreme (in other countries people like them, go figure), but I do not think magic qualifies. You see, I also surf, and race sailboats, and while I would never show friends from those groups any gamer stuff, I always had them (especially the girls ) beging for more magic! We are what we make of ourselves friends, and magic is one of the most socially valuable things I've ever encountered; hardly nerdy.

Uh oh... the guy with the Lord of the Rings reference in his screen name is in denial!

Seriously, I'm glad I wasn't too far off base with my theory. I thought I was going to get flamed for sure!

But Frodo brings up a good point... you guys should not stop posting! We need to keep the balance. We have to be the base to the acidic whiners. Especially guys like you, who have so much knowledge and a deep understanding of the craft. I know it can be annoying, but you can't give up! Fight the good fight! Magicans unite!

I know, I know... who wants to see yet another post titled "What are the best cards to use?", but these cats are new and fifty or so posts from now, they will be the ones saying "Jeeze, this post has been covered. Do a search." These discussions go in a circle, and always will. But please don't let that turn you guys off from adding to this forum what we need most; insightful, well-thought-out and valuable points of view.

And Mr. Murphy, I agree, Green Lantern is a wimp! Batman rules!

But he said Superman.....

Chris

I'm going to relate some "whining" and "nerd" stories for you. Let's look at the big picture.

Back in the early 70's, a young 14 year old magician (who I will call David), joined IBM Ring 200 in North Brunswick New Jersey. He was sort of full of himself at times (as were a lot of the members of our club), so I suspect he was in the right place.

I use to drive him home after the Tues. night meetings. His parents would drop him off, but his parents would suggest that he find a ride home.

David had that "newbie spirit." He would brag about his performance skills, yet he would refrain from performing for us.

But all that time, we didn't realize that David was really learning from us. Yes... in my opinion, he was a pain at times, talking about how he was going to be one of the greatest magicians of all time... and so on.

But our club didn't dismiss him. We worked with him, "shared the magic," he was a member of our club and we treated him as such.

He left the club at the age of 17. And with in 5 years, David had his first TV special. Mr. Copperfield may have been a bit of a challenge, but he was a young man interested in magic and Ring 200 was not the sort of club that would diminish any member. We really were interested in developing magicial skills, and every member was treated kindly.

I have seen this over and over. I have belonged to other IBM clubs around the country, and from these clubs I have met the "nerds." I can tell you now... a good number of these whiners are now working Vegas and other professional venues around the world.

What did this teach me. Never under-estimate your fellow magicians. The world is full of different personalities, and some of those folks, in the future, will leave you in the dust.

Let's not stifle an posts... new next whiner may be charging you 95.00 to see his/her show.

Nerdyness is all around us. I recently spent an afternoon with a very well-known mentalist who I thought was very "cool." He was in town for a lecture. Turns out he wanted to go to bookstores to browse, and freely admitted that he was still "a nerdy teenager" despite being old enough to have teenagers of his own.