I am working on shelled coin stuff and when I start to create routines for my act I always refresh myself on the basics. I was reading the shell section in Bobo's and I think that in it's original incarnation, the expanded shell is obsolete.

The original purpose of the expanded shell was to allow the magician to borrow the coins for his/her effect and secretly adding the shell to make impossible magic.

2013. We use coins that are well over 100 years old and no one carries them in their pockets anymore.

50 or 60 years ago Slydini could do an awesome coins through table with borrowed silver dollars. Today you can get quarters.

is simply an observation but if you are ordering from the custom guys then you should probably get unexpanded shell with eemilled coins.

IMHO your determination of "the original purpose" is incomplete.

I think Bobo was more right than many coin men may think today. If a coin is something laymen have never seen or heard about,
it is back to the problem of magicians childhood fantasies and their childish toys. Magic has become more free from plastic gaffs
and stupid plastic gimmicks over the past 20 years. In coins, we could use Bobo's philosophy at least--we should at least be using things the customers use or at least have seen before (half dollars or eisenhower dollars)...
It is time magicians rid themselves of ideas of notions of childish special toys which they call "special coins"...
Magic is magic when we use things which at least appear normal, as Bobo was obviously on to. Bobo was ahead of his time, and ahead of this time,
when magicians justify childish and different coins which laymen have never heard of.

Couldn't disagree more.

I routinely perfom for people who have never seen a 50 cent piece or an Eisenhower Dollar (or even know who Eisenhower was. So unless you want to limit your coin magic to quarters, nickels and dimes. You're going to have to use not commonly recognised coins. IUf you are going to use these uncommon coins you might as well use silver dollars as they just handle so much better and look cooler.

Magic is also magic when we use strange and curious artifacts infused with mystery and oddity.

No one feels that unknown automatically telegraphs "magical" to the audience?
works for me
I mean proper kit not plastic or fakey cr** in terms of coins


my 2 loonies

S

I think I would always get an expanded [ . I like the idea that the shell will fit any coin, yours or anyone else's.

As to silver dollars, yeah, probably no one walks around with them in their pockets anymore much but that's OK I suppose. I never ask people for coin from their pockets, I always pull out my own and it never seems to be as big a deal as some might speak of. I typically don't use gaffs much so letting people see the coins is never a problem. I seriously don't think people pay as much attention to it as is talked about. I always feel that the magi steers the interaction and the specs buy into whatever you set up for the most part as the situation. All the rest is just stuff going on in your head as to what you think others might be thinking, which they typically aren't. I don't know but I do this stuff all the time and specs basically see what I show them as to coins, never a problem as to what they are, what dates, are they real, etc. I'm just sayin' but nowadays as to these gaff coins, they are made so deceptively well, it is hard to believe that anyone would suspect a trick coin with proper handling, not unless you show it to them.

My determination of the original purpose is not in this thread at all. What I stated was what Bobo said about the expanded shell, and I quote: "Although the old style shell and cut down half are still being used, the expanded shell is by far the most popular. The reason for this is that practically every trick that can be done with the old style set can be performed with the modern expanded shell. By employing the expanded shell the magician can borrow the needed coins and secretly add the shell to one of them. At the end of the routine the shell is secretly removed and the money returned without anyone being the wiser."

Can you explain to me how I misinterpreted that?

And if you plan to make statements like the above why don't you also make an attempt to enlighten the rest of us with your greater knowledge instead of attempting to discredit someone else's ideas without any reference in a poor attempt to make yourself smarter or better or more sagely?

In today's world, Morgan dollars and Peace dollars aren't oddities. QVC and other home shopping networks sell them frequently and coin collecting is one of the most popular hobbies in the world. I use Morgan's pretty much exclusively and I've never seen a quizical look on any one's face when I take them out. In fact, quite the opposite. Sometimes they say " Wow, silver dollars".

Regarding expandeds, I have a Johnson quarter, Kennedy Half (tails), English Penny and Eisenhower dollar. You're right, if you want to borrow the coins, you'll have to use quarters. No problem! Johnson makes an AWESOME quarter shell!

Doug

IMHO the expanded gaff permits more flexibility in method construction - one size fits all versus just-so arrangements.
IIRC this opinion came when exploring the tricks in the Hoffmann More Magic book.
I believe this kind of thinking informed Vernon's take on the transposition using a Chinese coin.

I have always solved this problem by passing out a basket containing many coins of various sized and origin (poker chips too). People love to explore and play with them. Then I "borrow back" one I need or allow a spectator to choose. I perform with what I get or direct the selection by saying something like, "I need a copper coin a bit bigger than a quarter -- yes, that will do. Can everyone see it?" Then I add a [ or do a Utility Switch for my gaffed coin and go to work. At the end I can return the coin(s) to the basket. Over time I have come to love coin effects performed in a spectator's hands -- easier to accomplish because of the trust involved with allowing them to handle my valuable coins.

I have never had anyone ask why I have such a collection of coins or ask to examine anything. I can also select a Volunteer Assistant by observing how they handle the coins and basket.

In my Medieval Camp Strolling days I would have many objects in the basket besides coins and allow spectator selection to direct my performance. The attitude that I can perform magic with anything greatly enhances audience connection and rapport. In the "Story told after" I used "their coin."

Hey! I just did a quick Coins Across for my maintenence guy in my buidling! "Wow...you got 'trick coins' or something there!"

Huh?

I asked him, "What is a 'trick' coin?" He said, "You know, those squirting nickles and stuff." Ha! He has no idea what a 'trick coin' is! That is good. I let him look the coins over, dropping each one on the table, listening to the "ring" of the coin. "Nope these are the real deal alright! I have NO freaking clue!"

I did one coin through the table adding the shell back. He freaked! I love it!

Doug

Hey Doug, I think it's too risky to even try to borrow a quarter now in the US. Too many variations these days. I got a quarter back as change the other day and it caught my eye because it was gleaming so bright and looked brand new, then I noticed it was a different design from anything I had seen before. Certainly would not have matched my Johnson shell.
Bill

In my experience, no one is looking at the design that closely unless you specifically point it out for some reason.
A quarter is a quarter until you give them reason to suspect otherwise.

Agreed.

I have found that they just think they are OLD coins!! That I got from my Gran pa! As Al baker Said" Don't Run when no one is Chasing You" !

And as far a Bobo's goes No one carry's Half's These days!SOOOO I dare you to go up to ANYONE AKA Layman! And borrow Four Half's!!!

Try working outside of the US people. Talk about over-thinking things. I work in Australia, use US coins almost exclusively( including a [, and I've never worked with borrowed coins. My Kennedy halves are a talking piece in themselves to my audiences,and you know what ? They are solid chunks of metal. that's what makes the magic amazing when it happens. Having odd coins ( to what they usually see )just gives me a reason to have them inspect the coins.

Yea When I went To Japan Most of the guys there where using U.S. Half's

I don't remember when I started doing this, but now, I have a handful of different coins. I put them on the table. Let them look them over. If I have a half dollar expanded, I ask them to pick out four half dollars, etc...

Seems to take the heat off a bit...

Doug