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Magic-Daniel Inner circle Denmark 1328 Posts 
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Four of my favorite magicians are: Bill Malone, David Willamsom, Rene Lavand and Armando Lucero.
As you all know, Bill Malone and David Williamson are hilarious funny, while Rene Lavand and Armando Lucero are a different kind of performers. I would tend to think they focus more in the magic effect in itself and the sense of wonder to laypeople. In Eugene Burger's book "Mastering the Art of Magic", he writes that the difference between doing a magic trick and "real" magic: Doing a magic trick is about the props, "real" magic is about life. I very much agree with that statement. So with that statement in mind, does Bill Malone and David Williamson do magic tricks, while Rene Lavand and Armando Lucero do "real" magic? Without having read Eugene Burger's book and this statement, I would still tend to feel that. But even more so after reading that statement from Eugene Burger. I would definately think that an audience after watching of show of the first two magicians, would leave more with an impression of laughs and magic tricks, where with the last two, they would have more of an impression of wonder and "real" magic. Shouldn't we all focus on getting as close to real magic as possible? What is your opinion on this topic? |
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R.E. Byrnes Inner circle 1206 Posts
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Just like movies, music, books: Humor isn't inconsistent with optimal magic experience; humorlessness doesn't guarantee an audience will feel 'wonder.'
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3080 Posts
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I seriously doubt that the Eugene Burger quote refers to the funny style of either Williamson or Malone, or if it even refers to humor at all. Both Williamson and Malone have made quote a name for themselves as magicians, so they are doing something right. I've seen Williamson perform for non magicians, and while he is funny, he is not as all out wacky as he is when he does a lecture, and you definitely remember the magic.
People who are laughing can be great for misdirection, and I feel humor is essential in magic. |
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts
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Bill Malone's magic can absolutely blow people away...his humor actually ADDS to the presentation, as it is a great form of misdirection.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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swayne100 Veteran user 389 Posts
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Isn't magic really just entertainment? I was under the imppression that most magicians never try to make their audience think they are performing "real" magic...
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3080 Posts
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I don't believe there is a one way or another, I think it's whatever works best for the performer.
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts
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John Archer did a great lecture about Comedy and Magic. In essence, there are three concurring parts of a performance: Magic, Humor, Filler stuff that is not funny nor magical.
In some parts, the first two parts can overlap, but you HAVE to be aware to remove the filler stuf as much as possible. It would be better to attend his lecture, then you would understand much better. I am not really funny and I bet I fill a lot, so I am the wrong person to answer. I would say, people need to clearly understand when magic happens, if the "magical moment" happens in a funny, relaxed comedy moment, you are definitely doing something wrong.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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R.E. Byrnes Inner circle 1206 Posts
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"Isn't magic really just entertainment? I was under the imppression that most magicians never try to make their audience think they are performing "real" magic..."
I assume he meant that because there's no explanation, it seems like real magic. Anyone actually talking about "real magic" is obviously deluded. But few things dampen the experience more than the trite disclaimer that a performance is "just for entertainment purposes." That's as entertaining as being told to put seat backs and tray tables in their "original upright and locked position" on an airplane. |
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MuscleMagic Special user 794 Posts
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Just think for a minute
bill malones look designed for comedy magic (not in a bad way at all) magic beards look designed for magic while doing yoga and talking about life as dani daortiz says about 10+ times in his dvd set, everyone should figure out what personality best fit them, |
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Magic Pierre Loyal user 212 Posts
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I saw this guy on TV once who did a comedy "magic" act in which I can't recollect that he performed even a single trick. I think he is certainly not a magician.
I saw Mac King in Las Vegas, his show was hilarious, and his magic was first rate. He bills himself as a comedy magician, and what he does totally works. I watched "Ricky Jay and his 52 Assistants" all the way through this weekend. He is both witty and funny (two different things), and an unbelievable card magician. Here there is less comedy than with Mac King: it's mostly about the effect. I can't recollect any comedy in the David Blane clips I've seen. He seems pretty straightforward and has a flat affect. So the comedy content seems to me to be spread along a spectrum from loads to none. Thinking I over, it seems that the important thing is that magic is entertaining, and the inclusion of comedy can make it entertaining, but, if you're a magician, then the point is magic, and comedy is just an ingredient. In example number one above the point is comedy, and its magic that is only an ingredient. |
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Remagicon Regular user Somewhere over the Rainbow 124 Posts
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For my personality personally, I use comedy to break the ice, and then set up a nice mood of expectancy for what I'll actually be doing magic-wise. I often go serious when I produce the effect and create a serious magic moment and let people freak out. So for me I use comedy as a filler and then tune it down when it gets closer to striking time.
"Ars Est Celare Artem"
It is art to hide art |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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I have seen magicians that "think" that they can do comedy and in my opinion - it does ruin their magic to a certain degree.
I hope this helps.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-05-06 09:38, swayne100 wrote: I could not have said it better!! Billy |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1553 Posts
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Original Poster: I essentially agree with you.
Uri Geller would make jokes, but when it came down to performing the trick, the subtext read, "Hey, this is real." If you're inserting a bunch of gags, then the subtext says "Hey, we're just havin' a good time." Which is fine. I actually prefer it over the self-serious magician who talks about the "poets" or some woo. Everything has trade-offs. Play it serious and you can get some intense reactions... but others will be more resistant, inclined to think of you as a fraud. It seems many of the Spanish guys manage to fuse a good amount of romanticism and humor.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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Aaron Smith Magic Inner circle Portland, OR 1447 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-05-06 09:38, swayne100 wrote: Spot on! |
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R.E. Byrnes Inner circle 1206 Posts
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"Isn't magic really just entertainment? I was under the imppression that most magicians never try to make their audience think they are performing "real" magic...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spot on!" It would certainly be "entertaining" if a performance seemed like real magic - that is, if the spectators were without any explanation whatsoever, as they would be if magic were real. I don't think anyone here is literally talking about "real magic;" rather the phrase is used to describe getting as close as possible to what real magic would look like if it existed. There seems to be a lot of weird self-congratulation here by people who think that they have detected someone who believes there's such a thing as real magic. If pointing out that magic isn't real receives such effusive praise, that suggests magicians have bigger problems than how to integrate humor. And the tired aphorism that magic is all about "entertainment" says so little it's ot really worth repeating. |
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts
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R.E.:
I agree that are really very few performers that believe they are doing "real magic". It would be delusional to think so. I also agree that the "it's about entertainment, not magic" shtick CAN be taken too far. I do, however, lean fairly heavily in that direction. Robert Baxt, who is a very successful magician AND comedian clearly states in his DVD's that the entertainment aspect is very important. The TECHNICALLY perfect magician won't sell many tickets to his shows if he bores the socks off of you in the process. On the other hand, I have been to magic shows that were easy for me to detect the method, yet I was so thoroughly entertained that I just didn't care. For THAT, I would buy a ticket. I think too often we magicians think like...well...magicians. To us, it's all about the method. But to an audience, they just want to have a good time. David Copperfield isn't a "comedy magician", but he has enough light moments (both in his patter...much of which is written by a new friend of mine, and in his expressions) to make it very entertaining. He is also an accomplished storyteller...illustrating those stories with magic. Bill Malone, on the other hand, is a technically perfect close-up artist...but is also hilariously funny. I think his humor, at times, functions as keen misdirection. He probably gets away with things that we couldn't simply because of his persona. I think being a long-time bar/restaurant magician has helped him in this. I have chatted with both of these men, as well as Robert Baxt. All three have my greatest respect...and all three because they entertain me.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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Andy Young Special user Jersey Shore, PA 821 Posts
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Well here is my two cents:
If you are there to do magic then make sure your magic shines brighter then your humor. (Make them remember your effects more then your one liners) If you are there to do comedy then make sure your humor shines brighter then your magic. (Make them remember your one liners more then your effects) Humor can absolutely ruin the impression of your magic. But that isn't to say do use it. You have to make sure that your humor is well placed and above all else have them remember your effects more then your comedy. |
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Magic-Daniel Inner circle Denmark 1328 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-05-06 19:09, Aaron Smith Magic wrote: I think it's a really sad statement to say magic is "just entertainment". Because magic has the power to be much more. When magic becomes an art, it can (imo) touch people in way, no other form of art can. But of course, when you look at most magicians today, you understand the statement: "magic is just entertainment". The only difference between 99 % of magicians out there and your typical uncle Joe doing a magic trick, is the sleigh of hand involved. But sleight of hand is only 5-10 % of the whole performance/experience/wonder of magic. The rest is, presentation, timing, misdirection, facial expression, body language, mime, "the magic moment" and even more...When you "master" the above, I truely believe magic can become an art and create a sense of wonder that is unique to magic. I think magicians could learn from mentalism. Most mentalist (please correct me if I wrong) really believe what their doing is real - that something special is happening. Most magicians don't believe a thing of what their doing. So how could you ever create a sense of wonder to a spectator, when you don't belive in what your doing youself? |
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Russell Davidson Inner circle Hampshire, England 1108 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-05-07 07:08, Magic-Daniel wrote: There's nothing sad about magic being entertainment. It is what it is. And the difference between your uncle Joe & a real performer is more than SOH. It's the package as a whole, presentational skills being top of the list. Mentalists don't believe what they're doing is real. Maybe some of their audience will think that but any mentalist who believes he's real is crazy in the coconut. Unlike mentalism, where most performances are of a more serious nature, magic can be presented in many forms. Most audiences know that magic isn't real so performing it with all the belief in the world may not elevate the sense of wonder for them. It is just entertainment but if you want to adopt a more serious presentation there's nothing wrong with that either. |
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Posted: May 6, 2013 12:47 pm 
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