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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Vaccine Controversy: A PubMed Compilation : 15 to start with (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Woland
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Hi tommy,

The fact that someone decided to award damages to someone, does not necessarily prove anything.

Hi Lobo,

The Sabin (oral) polio vaccine is a live, attenuated virus. That is, it is a polio virus that has been bred to become so weak that it does not cause significant disease. But 1 in a million doses reverts to the "wild type," and a small number of those viruses may cause severe disease, as happened in the case you describe. One way of avoiding that problem altogether, was to administer inactivated polio virus vaccine by injection at least once, before giving the oral polio vaccine. Since 2000, the CDC has recommended giving two doses of the injectable, inactivated virus vaccine alone, and no oral polio vaccines are now generally used in the United States.
tommy
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If the Italian Health Ministry conceded the MMR vaccine caused autism and paid out thousands in damages goes not prove anything then what does?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2013-05-24 15:36, Woland wrote:
Hi tommy,

The fact that someone decided to award damages to someone, does not necessarily prove anything.

Hi Lobo,

The Sabin (oral) polio vaccine is a live, attenuated virus. That is, it is a polio virus that has been bred to become so weak that it does not cause significant disease. But 1 in a million doses reverts to the "wild type," and a small number of those viruses may cause severe disease, as happened in the case you describe. One way of avoiding that problem altogether, was to administer inactivated polio virus vaccine by injection at least once, before giving the oral polio vaccine. Since 2000, the CDC has recommended giving two doses of the injectable, inactivated virus vaccine alone, and no oral polio vaccines are now generally used in the United States.


He caught his way, way back in the day. I met him in the mid-80s, and he'd had it since he was a kid.

That oral one sure tasted good, though. Mmmmmm cherry.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2013-05-24 15:38, tommy wrote:
If the Italian Health Ministry conceded the MMR vaccine caused autism and paid out thousands in damages goes not prove anything then what does?


Do innocent people plea bargain?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Woland
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Hi tommy,

Scientific questions are generally decided by scientific evidence, not by a quasi-judicial proceeding. Since the overwhelming scientific evidence is that "autism" is not associated with the MMR, the fact that a particular panel of Italian officials decided to award a payment to a particular patient doesn't prove a thing.

This kind of judgment occurs frequently. The manufacturer of silicone breast implants was bankrupted by claims that the devices caused various diseases, and they were taken almost entirely off the market. Those cases were however wrongly decided, the overwhelming scientific evidence is that the devices didn't cause the problems for which enormous judgments were paid, and they are back on the market today.

And there are other examples.

Hi Lobo,

Your friend's case is extemely sad.
tommy
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The Italian Health Ministry conceded the MMR vaccine caused autism. That is not not a mere quasi-judicial proceeding. They were faced by scientific evdence the could not refute when it came to independent review in the courts. They open the door for themselves to be sued again and again and do not take that step lightly. In a court case, you call your experts and the other side calls theirs and its decided who is right. In this case, your side lost. Moreover lost because The Italian Health Ministry conceded and not because some crazy jury got it wrong.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Woland
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OK, tommy, what was the evidence that convinced the Italian Health Ministry, anyway? Did they specify it?
Woland
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Victims of the anti-vaccine hysterics are now speaking out, too:

Quote:
ON March 9, 2009, four-week-old Dana McCaffery's heart stopped after whooping cough left her tiny lungs unable to breathe. Her mother Toni could not watch as medical staff unhooked her daughter from the hopelessly inadequate life support system, but her husband Dave did, and crumpled with grief.

"Dave was screaming," says Toni.

"I told him to be quiet. I just wanted to soothe my child."

As Toni held her tiny baby, she couldn't comprehend the loss, or how they would survive the sorrow.

Little did they know then that Dana's death from whooping cough, and the media coverage that followed, came to represent a very inconvenient truth to the anti-vaccination lobby - and thus began an extraordinary campaign against this grieving family.

The McCafferys are today breaking their silence on the cyber bullying,the anonymous letters and the cruelty of some members of the anti-vaccination movement.

The couple has been accused of being on the payroll of drug companies; they have had their daughter's death questioned and mocked; they have even been told to "harden the f . . . up" by an opponent of vaccination.

"The venom directed at us has just been torture and it's been frightening, abhorrent and insensitive in the extreme," says Toni, who has not had the strength to talk about this until now.

The invasion of the McCafferys' grief started the day before they buried their baby girl. Meryl Dorey, who heads up the Bangalow-based Australian Vaccination Network, rang the head of the North Coast Area Health Service, Paul Corben, to demand Dana McCaffery's autopsy reports.

She wanted proof that Dana actually died of whooping cough. Dorey has no medical training, but she wrote this on a blog defending her actions.

"When this little girl's death was announced, the media were reporting several things that made me question that this baby had actually died of whooping cough. I contacted the head of the public health unit and asked if this case of pertussis (whooping cough) had been laboratory diagnosed."

She was told it had been a quick test but pushed further, wanting to know if there was a bacterial culture.

She was denied the information.

"To my mind, while an entire community of conscientious objectors were being victimised by the government and the media and being blamed for the death of a child who was too young to be vaccinated, I had every right to ask for this information," Dorey wrote.

Toni disagreed: "They were just tearing apart everything we had just witnessed and lived through..

"It just made me feel sick to the stomach, but it was just the beginning."

On May 3, 2009, Dorey wrote that Dana caught whooping cough in the hospital as a newborn: "The only thing that is fairly certain, according to Dana's doctor, is that she probably did come into contact with pertussis in the hospital - not after she went home."

The McCafferys began to receive anonymous letters to their home address, including AVN pamphlets, telling them they should have just stayed at home and breastfed the baby.

It was antibiotics that killed her child, they were told, and if she'd simply had some intravenous vitamin C, Dana would still be alive.

"We were getting so many letters of support and then you get one like that and my reaction was to rip them to shreds," David says. "I don't understand how people can be so cruel, but I believe the intent was to shut us up."
balducci
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From the news of late (i.e. measles outbreaks all over), this thread seems topical again. (Apologies if someone started a more recent thread about the anti-vacciner movement ... if there is one, I guess I missed it.)

OP, have you read this?

Image


http://www.salon.com/2015/02/06/this_ant......ampaign/

Apparently the reviews on Amazon are something.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On May 24, 2013, tommy wrote:
Well I don't know how else vaccines can effect the brain other than through chemical relationships.

Anyway the Italian Health Ministry conceded the MMR vaccine caused autism in a case there recently, the victim was awarded damages for it. It is not the first case where children have been allegedly damaged by vaccines. The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program ( that is in the USA I presume) has paid out over $2 billion in compensation to families who have been damaged by vaccines, the other day they paid out $6million out to some people, but is the Italian case the first case where it has been conceded that the MMR vaccine caused autism?


Yes! Let's go back to not getting children vaccinated. Then we'll see autism vanish, along with about 2.6 million people (most of them children) every year! That seems like a fair trade;

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
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"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Natural Mystic
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Some anti-vaxxers have moral concerns with some vaccines because they were developed from aborted fetal tissue cell lines such as WI-38 and MRC-5.

http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-product......sue.html
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landmark
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Also, people with undiscovered allergies can rarely be injured by vaccines. There's also a risk of contracting Guillain-Barre syndrome after receiving a flu vaccine- but it's 1-2 in 100,000. I'll take my chances; I'd rather not get any number of nasty, preventable diseases by being vaccinated.

You can take your chances--no problem with that. But others should be allowed to take their chances as well; their mileage may differ substantially.
tommy
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Fox News guest Jonathan Hoenig said today he absolutely supports vaccinations, but thinks the idea of mandating vaccines is a slippery slope to the government forcing all sorts of medical procedures upon people.

Hoenig is not alone in his concern about mandating vaccines; Rand Paul said this week most vaccines should be voluntary and not government-mandated, while Chris Christie said parents should have “some measure of choice” when it comes to vaccinations.

Hoenig, however, took the argument one step further when he warned about what it could lead to:

“Think about where this could lead if government gets involved in science and medicine. You know, forced sterilizations, forced abortion, forced pills, forced treatments.”
However, Hoenig is fine with people who don’t get vaccinated, and end up being infectious, being “forcibly quarantined” by the government.

Watch the video below, via Fox News

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-guest-man......s-pills/
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magicfish
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Whatever happened to Woland?
tommy
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He was vaccinated.

Where is our friend JT by the way?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
rockwall
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Quote:
On Feb 8, 2015, magicfish wrote:
Whatever happened to Woland?


Exactly what I was thinking. Re-reading this thread made me realize how much I missed him.
w_s_anderson
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He probably got tired of the ignorant and uneducated ramblings of the AVM.
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