That is rather intersting. In the states, people do not tend to see it as an hourly rate at all. They see it as a price on an overall product they are buying. The product is your show and the time and all that is involved with it.

I have never had anyone say that it was a huge hourly rate and therefor not book me. I guess it is different up in Canada?

My fee for a birthday party is $150.00. But as a product it is well worth the money and I make sure the client knows that for the price, I am meeting and solving alot of their own immediate needs.

VZ,

If you're losing business because your fee is $20, then it's likely you are providing no perceived value to your clients.

Read through threads on this forum and even check out The Dean's List for some real serious answers on how to create perceived value and get the fee you should.

Robert Bloor

I second that. The Deans List is an excellent place to get a lot of very good information about marketing that is practical to everyone. You will find what your looking for if you go and search.

Kyle -

That is something unique to him and his situation. I get much more than that, in my area of Canada. And I know other magicians in the prairies who get much, much, much more than that (Everett Andrews of Calgary, Murray Hatfield of Calgary, Broderick Mauro of Regina, and Lou Leventhal of Saskatoon come to mind. They are all top paid professionals!).

(Personally speaking, I have been paid decently when performing in Saskatchewan a few years ago, too.)

People do not percieve it as a hourly rate if you know how to sell, deliver a good show, etc. VZ will just have to learn that part of show "BUSINESS."

One of the first shows I was paid for, over 22 years ago here in Canada, I was given $25 without asking for it (at that point I was donating shows for the experience of it all). From then on my rates started at $25, then grew the next year, etc. This was way back in 1981, when I was 14.

My current rates for birthdays are closer to yours, Kyle, even with the Canadian to American exchange.

This conversation about "hourly rates" is very similar to the one that we had recently on the "little darlings" forum with Mikael from Sweden, titled "Magicians are too expensive":

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......7&48

The Gr8 DonaldD.

Hey there VZ,
LIke the others have just mentioned. It's important not to come across as: Excuse me for bothering you with my big price of $25 for doing only 40 minutes of fun for your kid, then sort of squirming about it like you're expecting them to say it's too high.
The suggestions from the others here are right on when they tell you that in talking to potential customers it's just like selling cars or washing machines. They always give you a million good reasons why you should buy one before they get too into the price. You may need to look into having a good way to get these types of points across to your potential customers. I always tell people who say my price is too much just what the others here are mentioning. I practise hours every week, I have to buy lots of props, I have to spend lots of time putting on my make up, getting to the event. They then get the point that it's more than just 40 minutes of show. One of the agents that get me shows here is a real good sales person and has the gift of the gab in selling the benifits of having me do shows for her customers. I wish at times I was more like that myself.
JoJo

VZ, here's the website for SYM groups in Manitoba:

http://members.shaw.ca/marc.hache/

There are other links from that page.

The Gr8 DonaldD.

Donald, thanks for the site. I e-mailed them about if there could be a club started here.

Jojo, I don't have any extreme amounts of props and I like to keep my load light and I don't have makeup either, just a nice costume.

Thanks for all your posts, you've help me out a lot. I actually have a show on the 20th and I hope the bookings will increase. Robert, were is the Deans List? Is it a thread?

VZ,

Hang in there! One day you will be looking for someone to cover your over commitments. It never seems to come fast enough but it will happen if you make it.

For years I marketed recording artists and entertainers. I am also a professionally published professor in the field of marketing professional services and especially doctors, dentists, lawyers and CPAs. There seems to be one easy way to spot a real professional in a group that just wants to be professional. They volunteer! The first thing a professional offers is himself. Others offer money or anything else. The place to make contact with real professionals is by volunteering. They network outside of their volunteer work and they have real power and credibility. They genuinely appreciate professionalism and support others who do. They give help when asked by those they respect. And the quality of that help is priceless. They can open more doors for you with a phone call than the best of agents or managers can with a huge budget. (I owned a booking and management agency for years.) Agents and managers are important but they live off of commissions. Referring professionals have a reputation to lend and protect. This is called “borrowed image” and it is priceless from the right people.

So my real advice is to volunteer and to get as many shows as you can under your belt and in the public eye. Make sure that these are true charitable shows. (Don’t just do a commercial show for free! Make it a gift to a worthy cause.) In addition to getting your show before an audience, it proves that you are a responsible professional. Both are necessary to long term success in this business.

Secondly, it’s your career. Never make it someone else’s. Control it. Money is a necessary evil in this world. You will find it is much easier to get when you are too busy to worry about it. Make your own rules about pricing but stick to them. I have been doing magic forty-two years and I have two prices: free and nonnegotiable. If anybody on the show gets paid, I get paid and I get paid my regular fee. (I have been known to give the money back to a good cause, but that is still my personal decision.) It came as a great surprise to me when I saw how well the system worked. I have probably not lost fifty jobs in my life from saying “No” to the amount of the money. (Most were not real losses anyway!) People understand that better than they are willing to tell you. Be fair but be resolute. Usually the decision to hire you was made before net prices were discussed. It will also surprise you to learn how many jobs you turn down because of the amount of money come back to you later on your terms. People want what they are buying and expect to pay for it. If they can’t, they need to change their want lists, not your act. Your act should have the same integrity for top money or for free. That is simply a requirement of professionalism.

Good Luck! I'll be watching you.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

Donald: Great information there my friend. In Canada do people often think of a magician's price in terms of an hourly rate? I am curious because it seems in the states everyone always looks at the price not as hourly but as a product price. This is the price for the product you are buying. I ask because it fascinates me and I would like to learn more.

I also understand it is totally about how you sell to your client and how you get them to know that your meeting their needs and getting them to appreciate your value to them.

I always sell in this manner but find it interesting to me that in the states, I have never had hourly rate even come up. I am not sure if that is because I am selling well to them or if it is because we seem to view things a bit differently. Can anyone shine any light on this?

Vanished:
I am the co-leader of the Philadelphia SYM group. We have had the clkub for over 10 years and still have about 35+ members every year. My co-leader and I are also very big in the National SYM organization and help with the youth activities at the national convention each year.

I would be happy to work with you or answer any questions you may have if you are intersted in starting up an SYM assembly in your area.

Amazed Wits:

Thank you very very much for that post. I think that what you wrote could really help me. You seem to know a lot about marketing.

I appreciate your help. It really made me think about my magic. It's really good to hear such good advice. I think I'll try to do some volunteering as soon as I can.

Kyle,

Yes, I do want to start up a ring here. I don't' think that I could manage it because I'm still in school BUT could I contact other magicians and ask them about starting one? Thanks.

Vanished. That is the right approach. The SYM assembly must be run and conducted by an adult magician and SAM member. Ask around and see if someone might be interested and see if you can find other kids that might want to join. If you need further help and information, just let me know.

VZ,

The Dean's List:

http://www.thedean.net/forum

Register and start learning!

Robert Bloor

I still say raise your price. But, on the same hand, you should be honest with yourself. How good is your performance?

You say you do 20 tricks in your show. But, you charge $20. Your show should be worth more than $1 a trick!

Right now, you should be concentrating on getting the gigs. DO NOT TURN DOWN ANY SHOWS. Work anywhere in any condition. Work, work, work. Only through this will you gain experience.

And, through experience, you will gain more confidence in your show. Then, and only then will you feel confident to raise your price.

The weird part is, when you get to the point where you think your show is good enough to raise your price, the more shows you will book.

Work, work, work.

I will second what Robert stated. Go to the Dean's List today and start learning so much valueable information on how you can boost the amount of shows you do and market yourself. It is such a valuable place to go and learn.

Kyle -

I've had people who call in, asking how much do I charge for an hour show (they assume an hourly wage), but that is because of their inexperience at hiring performers, not because of public perception. Read that again. It's important.

I would say that Canadians are like Americans in buying decisions, etc. I can't recall anyone saying that my "hourly" wage is too high, because I can't recall them ever thinking in those terms.

The Gr8 DonaldD.

P.S. I third what RobertBloor said. Join the Dean's List:

http://www.thedean.net/forum

Sounds good! And happy holidays

VZ -

Be sure to check your email for the tips I sent that way. Merry Christmas!

The Gr8 DonaldD.

Thanks all. Great information once again. Thanks for your comments Donald.

As Kyle and I fine-tuned the point about an "hourly wage", it was pointed out that this will happen more often if you are advertising in the yellow pages.

If you get all of your shows via word of mouth, you will get more people who have a realistic idea about the length of a show.

If you are in the yellow pages as well, you will get people who ask about a show for "an hour", because they are inexperienced at hiring a magician. In fact, I have had people call me from yellow page ads, who have never even seen a live magician before.

The Gr8 DonaldD.

Donald:
It was great talking with you last night about this topic. It does seem that you would get more requests like this from the yellow page ads. I guess the bottom line is that if this does happen, it is up to you to educate your clients.