On 2013-05-23 22:38, kambiz wrote:


Aces, if you or anyone can guide me to where I can read official Catholic teaching that says that all atheists can attain salvation, I will be delighted

Kam

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The Holy Father is full of surprises, born of true and faithful humility. On Wednesday he declared that all people, not just Catholics, are redeemed through Jesus, even atheists.

However, he did emphasize there was a catch. Those people must still do good. In fact, it is in doing good that they are led to the One who is the Source of all that is good. In essence he simply restated the hope of the Church that all come to know God, through His Son Jesus Christ.

Francis based his homily on the message of Christ to his disciples taken from the Gospel of Mark. Francis delivered his message by sharing a story of a Catholic who asked a priest if atheists were saved by Christ.

"They complain," Francis said, "If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good." He explained that Jesus corrected them, "Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good."

The disciples, Pope Francis explained, "were a little intolerant," closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that "those who do not have the truth, cannot do good." "This was wrong... Jesus broadens the horizon." Pope Francis said, "The root of this possibility of doing good - that we all have - is in creation."

"Even them, everyone, we all have the duty to do good, Pope Francis said on Vatican Radio.

"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point."

Francis explained himself, "The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart, do good and do not do evil. All of us. 'But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.' Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!" We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."

Father James Martin, a Jesuit priest, told the Huffington Post, "Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a 'ransom for all.' But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."

On 2013-05-23 23:09, mastermindreader wrote:

I presume that you will consider the words of Pope Francis to be "official Catholic teaching."

On 2013-05-23 22:38, kambiz wrote:

Quote:

On 2013-05-23 22:06, acesover wrote:
Please Kam don't try and show yourself as an expert on Catholicism, you definitely are not. Stick with your own religious beliefs and quote them as much as you want. You may be qualified to do that, however I am not even sure about that. But again don't try and tell us here about the Catholic religion when you only seem to know enough to get yourself in over your head when discussing the Catholic faith and its teachings. Please don't go there.

It is very difficult to try to discuss something as involved as religion with someone who believes they are an expert on a particular religion, when there knowledge comes from what they have just googled and they regurgitate it without knowing what they have just read. A little knowledge is dangerous. Especially if one spouts it to be absolute truth and does not understand fully what they have just read but believe they do. There is nothing more frightening and dangerous than a person who knows they are right, but are not.

Believe what you want. But stop trying to be a missionary and telling other people what at best is half truths about what you believe to be their religion.

I have said it many times, I am not a missionary. I don't have the patience for it and definitely not the calling. But I do know my religion and from your posts you don't. So again stick to what you believe in and quote yours all you want but don't try and sell others on what you have just googled and only know the tip of the iceberg. Or should we get into how your leader cannot even keep his own house in order? I won't go there because I don't know all the facts but I know you know what I am referring too.

If it makes you happy to believe that all of us Catholics have been duped and only you guys have the true religion, go for it. But keep it to yourself and be happy. I know I am content and I feel you should be too.

Aces, if you or anyone can guide me to where I can read official Catholic teaching that says that all atheists can attain salvation, I will be delighted

Kam

On 2013-05-24 00:11, kambiz wrote:

Quote:

On 2013-05-23 23:09, mastermindreader wrote:

I presume that you will consider the words of Pope Francis to be "official Catholic teaching."

Actually, Bob, I think you may need to do further research. I will leave it to the people who "know it" to respond to you here, since I know nothing (and I don't, but I'm happy to learn).

On 2013-05-24 01:02, Dannydoyle wrote:
Kam in history your routine is nothing new. It has been used by hate groups for centuries.

Go ahead concentrate on what divides if this is what your faith asks of you. Deny facts just so you can claim righteous indignation. Be happy.

On 2013-05-24 01:03, kambiz wrote:
I am not shouting or slandering you Bob, I am delighted to here this open-ness to salvation..

So, are you saying that this teaching which you quoted in your post above, is in line with what is written in the Catechism? If so, how? I can't seem to reconcile the two at all.....

Kam

Father James Martin, a Jesuit priest, told the Huffington Post, "Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a 'ransom for all.' But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!" We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."

Growth in understanding the faith

94 Thanks to the assistance of the Holy Spirit, the understanding of both the realities and the words of the heritage of faith is able to grow in the life of the Church: (66, 2651, 2038, 2518)

— “through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts”;57 it is in particular “theological research [which] deepens knowledge of revealed truth.”58

— “from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which [believers] experience,”59 the sacred Scriptures “grow with the one who reads them.”60

— “from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth.”61

I'm still yet to hear why Catholic schools will not teach my child anything unless he/she was baptized a Catholic??
BTW, that's a question. I hope that's allowed without being accused of being argumentative

You said that pages ago, and despite fact after fact which demonstrates that either it's a falsehood, or that Australian Catholic schools insist on a condition for your child that they do not for over 200,000 others, you refuse to admit it's untrue.

Now the truth is if Catholic schools refused to even admit non Catholic students, in Australia that would be their right - and rightly so. Australia has always practiced freedom of religion.

But they do admit non Catholic students, and they don't insist they be baptised Catholics....

and they do openly declare that Catholic values are an important part of their curriculum. If that is not appropriate for your child, send him to a government school - it's free and of a high standard.

The assertion that Catholics exclude all but Catholics from their Heaven has also been shown to be false or if you insist, as you will, debatable, BUT it isn't any of your business - and it's irrelevant to anything on these pages.

If you are an atheist or of some other religion, the Catholic way to Heaven is irrelevant to you. If the Pope announces tomorrow that to go to Heaven as a Catholic you need to wear purple nail polish on Thursdays and a bone through your nose every full moon - IT DOESN"T MATTER - because you don't believe in it anyway - it's not your religion.

It only matters to non Catholics if the Pope says "kill all the non Catholics" or "burn down all the non Catholic places of worship". Now some did say that - a bloody long time ago - as have Protestants, Moslems, Buddhists, and most of the rest. That only matters if they are still doing it now. If they stopped doing it centuries ago and have renounced that behaviour, time to move on.