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Fonsy Regular user 187 Posts |
Fred Russell's Coster Joe posing with
John Styles, the current owner # Click here to view attached image. |
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KeithS Elite user 449 Posts |
Neat. A legendary figure to be sure. By the way, I've always wondered what a "coster" was. Any ideas?
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Fonsy Regular user 187 Posts |
A coster or costermonger is a street seller of fruit and vegetables,
thus indicating Joe's social position. Coster Joe spoke with a cockney accent and, of course, a cheeky attitude. |
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Walden New user Eastern Oklahoma, where my fence has but 59 Posts |
Oh, wow. I just thought he was in dilapidated condition at Vent Haven, like Byron, Jr. Good to see he's been well-maintained!
Walden
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Dickens & Dave Inner circle North Central Florida 1813 Posts |
Cool to see.
And just so no one gets the wrong idea from the last post, if a figure is in dilapidated condition at Vent Haven, it would have been sent there in that condition.
http://dickensndave.bravehost.com/index.html
"Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest." |
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Aussie Special user Australia 623 Posts |
I think it's great to see a vintage figure still being used rather than sitting dead somewhere in a collection.
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Dickens & Dave Inner circle North Central Florida 1813 Posts |
I suppose some people look at it that way, I don't have a problem with vintage figures in a collection, mostly if it is a collection in a museum like Vent Haven where they are safe and protected and there for all those interested in the art to see and appreciate. They are a part of the history of the art, they are art.
"....sitting dead...", I don't see them as dead, I see them as living on in their original glory for others to appreciate for generations to come.
http://dickensndave.bravehost.com/index.html
"Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest." |
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Fonsy Regular user 187 Posts |
In his book "Ventriloquism and Kindred Arts," Fred Russell provides an example
of coster slang in an "interview" with Coster Joe. The interview ends with Joe reciting the following poem: It's the figger wot does it, It's the rotty little figger, I does all the work While Russell jerks the jigger. I cracks the gags and sings While 'is nibs just works the strings, Wot's 'is show, I'd like to know, Without the little figger! Figger is, of course, figure. A reprint edition of Russell's book is available at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Ventriloquism-Kind......8294728/ Too bad we can't hear Russell perform today! |
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Fonsy Regular user 187 Posts |
Definition of "nibs":
A British slang term used, jokingly, to refer to someone who is a bit full of themself, snobbish, and/or aristocratic. Who, basically, has an over-large ego. The origin of the term is unknown for certain. |
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KeithS Elite user 449 Posts |
Thank you, Fonsy. That was most edifying.
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Aussie Special user Australia 623 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-06-07 19:32, Dickens & Dave wrote: Don't get me wrong I agree a place like Vent Haven has it's place, but I'm sure there are collectors out there who buy up figures simply as a "look what I have in my collection" ideal and are preventing many actual ventriloquists the opportunity to perform with figures that were made to be used. There's plenty of professionals who'd love to own maybe a McElroy for example (I know they're rare) to perform with, but have been denied that because collectors are buying them up simply to add to their current stock. I just think it's a shame is all |
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Dickens & Dave Inner circle North Central Florida 1813 Posts |
Aussie, I agree with you on that, as many are in the museum, there are many, many more in private collections for simply the reason you said, to be able to say, "look what I have in my collection".
If someone is buying them up because they just love them, I can't say too much. At one time I was at around 40 figures, a small collection by some standards, a lot by others, and obviously, I couldn't use all those, but I just love vent figures, they aren't just a tool for vents, they are an art and I enjoyed having them to look at and appreciate. If I had the expendable cash, and the space, I imagine there would have been many more, so like I say, I can understand people buying them just out of a love and appreciation for figures. The ones where I really think "it's a shame", are the ones who seem to have the resources and time to really haunt every potential market for a stray figure and snap up every potential "deal" - not because they want to use the figure, not because they want them because of a love and appreciation of figures. No, their only goal is flipping them for a profit. I'd rather see someone who will use the figure and/or just appreciate it get the deal, it may be the only way they could afford the particular type of figure, but the "snappers" get them first and sell them for two or three times the price and the people who would appreciate them are still out. But there's nothing anyone can do about that, it's just the way it is, but it's still a shame. Probably the worst are the "vultures", they are the people who prey on those left with figures and/or a collection of memorabilia by the passing of a vent in the family. The "vultures" swoop in, and undoubtedly acting compassionate and helpful, basically "pick the bones" of the deceased vent offering the family member pennies on the dollar for the collection (or worse), and since they are usually also "snappers", their prime motivation is flipping the stuff for a profit, which is even better since they were able to basically "steal" the stuff for next to nothing. I'll bet for most of us, our wives, kids, etc., would have no clue what our figures and/or collectibles are worth, so they easily fall prey to such "vultures", glad to have someone "help" them. I'm sad to say I've heard more than a few "vulture" stories over the years, that's why I suggest vents should have a list of their figures with their approximate worth somewhere, like with their other important papers. Then if the surviving family members decide to sell the stuff cheap, well, that's up to them, but at least it won't be because the "vultures" were able to swoop in and take advantage because the family member had no idea.
http://dickensndave.bravehost.com/index.html
"Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest." |
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Dickens & Dave Inner circle North Central Florida 1813 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-06-07 09:10, Fonsy wrote: A P.S. to this, as I was told in a pm; "Coster Joe is "owned" by the Grand Order of Water Rats and is in their museum. John Styles simply had his photo taken with him."
http://dickensndave.bravehost.com/index.html
"Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest." |
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Walden New user Eastern Oklahoma, where my fence has but 59 Posts |
I didn't mean to imply that the figures in Vent Haven are uncared for. I just was thinking most figures that old seem to be rather decayed and in museums. I just was surprised at his state of preservation. I am glad for all the figures being maintained in museums such as Vent Haven.
Walden
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marshalldoll Special user 554 Posts |
Strange it is always the same when people talk about collecting no matter what the item is. Jealousy is what I am hearing. Look, everyone has the ability to purchase these antique figures if you go out and find them and then are willing to step up to the plate and buy them. Unfortunately most will never be able to own an original McElroy because they made only around 30 figures and they are all accounted for. I feel privaleged to have been able to aquire the ones that are in the Ventriloquist Central Collection but let me tell you when they became available I had to step up , take a loan and make the purchase. I also have made viewing of almost all the figures in the collection available to everyone both with pictures and videos of the figures. I do a blog about ventriloquism every day which includes the picture that Fonsy posted here today. The picture was sent to me for all to see. I emulate WS Berger and I have talked with many and he went through the same kind of talk when he was collecting. We have taken nothing away from anyone who is willing to go out and find it for themselves. Just my two cents.
Dan http://www.ventriloquistcentral.com |
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Aussie Special user Australia 623 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-06-08 18:42, marshalldoll wrote: I don't agree it's jealousy. There are a lot of vents out there who spend years honing their craft and, like a violinist who owns an inexpensive violin and hopes to one day own a Stradivarius because they've escalated their skill and want an instrument that is built to be played by a skilled musician as it sounds better, plays better and is simply a joy to use, feel as though many of these finely crafted vent figures are being denied to them because collectors are snapping them up. Like antique dealers some collectors know before hand when such a figure will be coming up for sale before anyone else, their thirst to add to their collection is such that they spend a lot of their time dealing through prior contacts or networks accumulated through years of collecting and generally because they might have a more stable cash flow (maybe they have a full-time job) are able to secure bank loans etc to make these purchases. A lot of working ventriloquists these days don't have that advantage. Many working ventriloquists don't want a myriad of figures, they just want that one "special" figure to work with and entertain people. Don't take it personally Dan I don't think anyone's expressing jealousy here. |
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Dickens & Dave Inner circle North Central Florida 1813 Posts |
Very good post Aussie.
Speaking for myself, I've never been actively seeking to acquire a big collection of vintage figures, even when I had a "lot" of figures, they were what I guess could be called the more "common" figures. And considering that I've been slowly parting with figures and minimizing what I do have rather than acquiring more (well, for the most part, I still backslide now and then like buying the Kindig figure), I guess it's safe to say that I don't fit into the "jealousy" category. I'm simply stating an opinion. And of course I would never be jealous of the "vultures".
http://dickensndave.bravehost.com/index.html
"Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest." |
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Aussie Special user Australia 623 Posts |
... and might I add a lot of ventriloquists don't want to view a figure sitting in a chair. They want to pick it up and bring it to life. For them that's the point of it all. Sure people do love visiting Vent Haven to look at the vintage and antique figures, read about the vents who entertained with them, learn the history but many just want to pick one up and use it. I'm sure many a ventriloquist has walked through those rooms lusting for one or two of the figures there and regretting that they will never be able to own one.
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marshalldoll Special user 554 Posts |
Maybe Jealousy was a bit harsh but let me tell you I have been contacted by quite a number of folks who have said just this "Why don't you let others have a chance at these great figures." I have stopped no one from buying them. Those kind of statements are in fact jealousy. Happy Hazzard was offered by Cy Leonard on the McElroy listas well as world vents!! I went after it. The Dizzy Dugan was offered on Mike Brose's list, when he had it, and I went after it. So as I said you have to be ready to step up. I LOVE this art and especially the figures and I have worked very hard to put a collection together for my enjoyment and for YOUR enjoyment too. If I didn't want to share you wouldn't have the web site Ventriloquist Central. So please don't call me a hoarder of these figures because anyone can do what I have done if you set your mind to it.
Dan http://www.ventriloquistcentral.com |
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Aussie Special user Australia 623 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-06-08 19:52, marshalldoll wrote: Nobody here's directing anything to you personally Dan. Surely you're not the only collector in the world? Enjoy the figures you have. Of course you have every right to appreciate this art like anyone else, but please do try to understand how some (maybe not all) working ventriloquists feel and their associated closeness to ventriloquist figures. It is after all something they have aspired to being for most of their lives. |
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