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Terry Holley
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Perhaps you have all seen this by now as it is making the rounds!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G06xdAEYcjM

http://www.christianpost.com/news/the-il......s-99458/

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
rossmacrae
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Stupidest nonsense I've ever seen. The guy's got a steel rod welded to the bus and running up his sleeve to a harness on his body. Maybe demons strapped it on him.

But then, we magicians are too stupid to know when our effects are actually caused by demons. After all, they do it for ventriloquists all the time - everybody knows it's impossible to "throw your voice", so it must be demons speaking through vent dummies.
Mike Maturen
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Yes...the wholesale ignorance displayed by the supposedly educated in the world today is astounding.......
Mike Maturen
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AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

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Vlad_77
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Okay, so this "journalist" - quotes intended - really believes it was a real levitation?! I also find his statement of temporary bus floater versus an eternity in Heaven to be lacking - and my sisters and brothers, I am being kind. God knows our hearts. Yes any obsession is dangerous spiritually, as well as mentally and often times physically. But, how does being an illusionist have any bearing at all on obsession? If that is the case - and let's consider the fact that "illusionist" is a category we magicians understand as a specific type or sub-genre of magic, then by this man's reasoning, we are all in danger of ***ation.

Dude, the witch burnings at Salem and the Spanish Inquisition are long past - and that was a shameful past. The Bible of course speaks about sorcery but in the context of deceiving by claiming supernatural powers and deceiving for ill gotten gain. Most people know that we accomplish what we do by natural means, and from a Christian perspective, we cannot accomplish anything we do without God's gifts. Just a little aside: in the earliest days of the Church, the issue of magic was examined and the Fathers understood and stated that magic as entertainment is not an immoral act as long as the magician does not claim supernatural powers and/or performs for ill gotten gains. So to this journalist I would simply answer, we've been there and done that. Now, if you want a real target, please go after Uri Geller who has claimed supernatural powers.

+Humbly in Christ,
Vlad
rossmacrae
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On the other hand, IN ESSENCE so far this thread has been bashing the usual "OMG! MAGIC! SATAN!" reactions that many (most?) have either faced or feared, when doing or suggesting a performance in a church. The christianpost author is by no means an anomaly ... people with this reasoning seem to be everywhere, maybe not huge numbers of them, but enough to be annoying.
Mike Maturen
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Ross: Hence my comments about ignorance.

Isn't it scary that people who claim to be teaching and preaching the Word of God can be so "in the dark"?

I once even knew of a church that fired a Sunday School teacher for stating that Mother Teresa "might" be in heaven. (when obviously she COULDN'T be, according to the pastor, because she was <gasp> a Catholic)

UGH.
Mike Maturen
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AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

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Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2013-07-14 20:22, Mike Maturen wrote:
Ross: Hence my comments about ignorance.

Isn't it scary that people who claim to be teaching and preaching the Word of God can be so "in the dark"?

I once even knew of a church that fired a Sunday School teacher for stating that Mother Teresa "might" be in heaven. (when obviously she COULDN'T be, according to the pastor, because she was <gasp> a Catholic)

UGH.


Yikes Mike! That is truly a horrific thing for that pastor to say! Okay, I don't pretend to know the Mind of God, but what I do know is what most of the world seems to know about this woman regardless of faith or lack thereof. Mother Teresa did exactly as God commanded in her work and she did that work even at great peril to her own health. I am not going to get into the "works" thing as I believe that Christ by His example showed us that works are good because He did them. Also, as Christians we know the following to be true:

St. Matthew 25:31-46
St. James 2:24
2 Corinthians 5:10
1 John 3:17-18
Revelation 14:12-13

and many more obviously.

+Humbly in Christ,
Vlad
themagiciansapprentice
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A publicity stunt by a popular UK Magician....

poorly understood by a commentator who's only witnessed it on youtube or in a stills picture ....

any glance at a magic text would have shown what happened and how .... it's a variant on the broom suspension, no welding required and he's done similar stunts before with the same technology on previous episodes

BUT some do not like any magic, whether live or fictional (Harry Potter)

all we can do is share our gifts to open minds and hearts to the Lords ... so just ignore these kinds of articles
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Mike Maturen
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Apprentice:

The people who blather on about how magic is evil choose to bathe in their ignorance. They won't look at magic books, because those, too are considered evil.

They don't want to hear it, because they choose to believe what some ignorant preacher TOLD them, instead of looking at the facts.

It is the very definition of the word "sheeple"...people that follow someone regardless of the facts.
Mike Maturen
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J-L Sparrow
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This thread reminds me of the following webcomic:

http://maximumble.thebookofbiff.com/2012/03/15/334-trick/

(I've posted this link in another thread back in 2012, so I apologize if you've seen it before.)

It humorously shows how some people mistakenly think that an (obvious) illusion is not an illusion, but rather the real thing.
J-L Sparrow
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That article and video remind me of a similar article I read a year or two ago:

http://www.michaelgrahamministries.org/other/sorcery.html

Basically, the writer is quite certain that the magician he saw is using demonic powers, because the magician "...was being watched from every angle, and the glass was transparent."

I think this is the video the writer is referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkMbSWwS3FA
Vlad_77
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Let's face it, these pastors and other non-magicians have no knowledge of the art and thus will attribute anything they see to demons or the Taliban or whatever. Maybe an education effort could take shape in which we don't expose directly but rather talk about the psychological underpinnings of magic to help these people understand that magic is in fact done quite naturally.

I would gladly start a blog if some of you would like to join . It will not be theological in nature at all. Rather it will be a blog that will educate sisters and brothers about magic as an art form. Remember, these same sisters and brothers watch movies which are themselves an illusion.

So, who's with me? Let me know and I'll get the blog started and provide the address. It's time to be proactive and educate.

(I feel like Galileo here LOL)
Joe M. Turner
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I was invited by The Christian Post to contribute an op-ed with a different point of view:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/christ......-100197/

A staff writer also wrote a follow-up article:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/christ......-100093/

Please feel free to share those links wherever you saw the original article shared.

Thanks,
JMT
...
Regards,
Joe M. Turner
[email]jmt@turnermagic.com[/email]
www.turnermagic.com
Mike Maturen
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A big thank you to Vlad and Joe for their generous offers!
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
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mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
Joe M. Turner
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For those who have been following the recent articles about Christians and magic, and who enjoyed my response to the article that appeared on ChristianPost.com, please note:

I will be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this evening sometime shortly after 7pm eastern, following their interview with Dan Delzell, who wrote the original article. He has, unfortunately, indicated that he would not be interested in a live conversation with me.

I hope to get a copy of the audio to share if you cannot pick up the station.

JMT
...
Regards,
Joe M. Turner
[email]jmt@turnermagic.com[/email]
www.turnermagic.com
J-L Sparrow
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Hey, Joe,

That's a great article you wrote at http://www.christianpost.com/news/christ......-100197/ .

I couldn't have written it better myself.
Terry Holley
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Anyone out there familiar with this book? Looks like it deals with the subject under discussion. Smile

http://www.amazon.com/Astrology-Psychic-......10489210

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Dougini
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Quote:
On 2013-07-16 16:39, J-L Sparrow wrote:
That article and video remind me of a similar article I read a year or two ago:

http://www.michaelgrahamministries.org/other/sorcery.html



Man...what a bag of wind! Thank you J-L, this shows me that stupidity, ignorance and just plain fanaticism reigns supreme! These people are Christians? My gosh. No wonder we are laughed at, ridiculed and scorned by non-Christians. I don't want to be associated with such people. And...

Quote:
On 2013-07-16 16:39, J-L Sparrow wrote:
I think this is the video the writer is referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkMbSWwS3FA


That was beautiful! The prettiest Coins Through The Table I have EVER seen! The guy is BRILLIANT! I love the Chinese people! I don't even need to speak the language. Just watching this guy makes me smile. God bless him! Smile

Doug
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2013-07-19 15:34, Joe M. Turner wrote:
For those who have been following the recent articles about Christians and magic, and who enjoyed my response to the article that appeared on ChristianPost.com, please note:

I will be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this evening sometime shortly after 7pm eastern, following their interview with Dan Delzell, who wrote the original article. He has, unfortunately, indicated that he would not be interested in a live conversation with me.

I hope to get a copy of the audio to share if you cannot pick up the station.

JMT


How did the interview go and is there a link? I see the announcement here: http://radio.foxnews.com/2013/07/19/on-f......how-164/

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2013-07-20 10:56, Terry Holley wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-07-19 15:34, Joe M. Turner wrote:
For those who have been following the recent articles about Christians and magic, and who enjoyed my response to the article that appeared on ChristianPost.com, please note:

I will be interviewed on the Alan Colmes radio show this evening sometime shortly after 7pm eastern, following their interview with Dan Delzell, who wrote the original article. He has, unfortunately, indicated that he would not be interested in a live conversation with me.

I hope to get a copy of the audio to share if you cannot pick up the station.

JMT


How did the interview go and is there a link? I see the announcement here: http://radio.foxnews.com/2013/07/19/on-f......how-164/

Terry


Answered my own question! http://db.tt/7ybRiuvi
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
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