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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » P.K Pencil by Mentalist Institution (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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celebrity
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I can personally vouch for Paul here is a stand up guy. Having read through the early instructions myself I must admit that I also missed the credit to Osterlind so shame on me too. This was an honest oversight and I know that Paul will amend the crediting accordingly and update the instructions as per the original concern.

On a separate note I love Paul's thinking. The PK combination with a pencil is fantastic and Paul's workmanship is second to none. I for one look forward to his subsequent releases.

Best Wishes to all, Michael
As a mentalist you must always ask yourself what if! And throughout your life you should seek to ask and answer this question over and over again, only then will your wildest dreams become a reality!

Visit - www.mindfx.co.uk to learn more!
Richard Osterlind
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I have no doubt that Paul is a standup guy. But this trick is MY effect. Crediting is not the problem. I have had this on the market continuously for over a decade. If Paul thinks this idea is so good that he can limit performance rights, what about my rights? We did careful research before putting psychic control on the market. No one else had a similar product. At the time, we wholesaled this effect through Murphy's and it is in the catalog of dealers worldwide.
Richard Osterlind
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Wayback when we recorded mind mysteries one, Lewis, Jim and I we're playing with the new effect. It was an ungafted effect were a pen moves. When I returned home I decided to come up with the same effect using some gimmicks to make it sure fire and to use in conjunction with the original effect. After working on it for a few months, I came up with a method that allows the pen to move in both directions at your will. This negates the actual method and makes the effect look miraculous. Again, we researched this and saw that it was brand-new. It has appeared on the mind mysteries DVD series, in my perfected center tear book, and as a stand-alone item on our website. Every one of those items contains the words "all rights reserved."
Jamie Ferguson
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The same happened with Stand-up Monte and Turbo Stick (both copies of existing tricks) but nobody batted an eyelid. This practice is all too common now unfortunately.

The result will be brilliant creators like Richard deciding not to share their output in future which would be a real shame.

Paul, do the right thing and pull your product.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
El Mystico
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There is an old joke about "it's a new trick, because it used a blue backed pack; the original used a red backed pack."
I don't think that applies here; I think a pencil has some advantages (although as someone pointed out, some disadvantages too).
So - I don't think the 'right thing' is to pull a good product.
But clearly Paul needs to come to some arrangement with Richard.
As Jamie says, if Paul thinks rights for this effect can be withheld, he should respect this!
Richard Osterlind
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What kind of advantages does a specially made pencil have over a Bic Pen?
El Mystico
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Richard;
It is a minor one; but a pencil 'seems' solid wood; while a bic is more recent technology.
Although I suspect this difference means little to most people.

Also, some people will be more used to using pencils than pens in their work.

(You may have missed it, but LarsA was the first to point out that the method was yours)
Richard Osterlind
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And even if there were some kind of advantage( I think that is absurd and the video looks to me like just another new "cool" magic trick than some kind of telekinesis) that would still NOT give him the right to just take it. You can't take someone else's property just because you think you can make it better!
Richard Osterlind
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Quote:
On May 31, 2015, El Mystico wrote:
Richard;
It is a minor one; but a pencil 'seems' solid wood; while a bic is more recent technology.
Although I suspect this difference means little to most people.

Also, some people will be more used to using pencils than pens in their work.

(You may have missed it, but LarsA was the first to point out that the method was yours)


I think that reasoning is such an obvious stretch . How many more people carry pens in their pocket instead of pencils! It clearly is blue deck/red deck and any attempt to justify this is ludicrous. Again, you don't get to steal something just because you think you can make it better
El Mystico
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Richard; we are not enemies; I own most of your DVDs and products and have huge respect for you! I agree there are advantages to a pen - I said as much. But I also think there is advantage, for some, for a pencil. So I think the pencil should be available. But Paul needs to come to an arrangement with you.
Richard Osterlind
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I know we are not enemies, but I am getting frustrated because you are totally missing the point. Paul does not have the right to take my idea just because he used a pencil! If you like that idea, you have every right to make one up for yourself and use in a show, but you do NOT have the right to market it! It is MY idea!
Raj Suman
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Playing a devils advocate. A pencil takes away a thought of using a m*****. it also take away a thought of it using s***** e**********. so maybe a pencil is a bit better, as I say playing devil advoacte only.
Richard Osterlind
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Quote:
On May 31, 2015, Raj Suman wrote:
Playing a devils advocate. A pencil takes away a thought of using a m*****. it also take away a thought of it using s***** e**********. so maybe a pencil is a bit better, as I say playing devil advoacte only.



It has nothing to do with it!
El Mystico
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But then; what is the idea? Moving items by m***** is clearly ages old. Uri used to rotate the arm of a compass. I remember Martin Breese sold something where a bar rotated under a glass cover. Putting the m***** in a pen was original with you; but are you arguing that from now anything that causes rotation through a m***** should be yours? Or just writing implements?
Richard Osterlind
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Quote:
On May 31, 2015, El Mystico wrote:
But then; what is the idea? Moving items by m***** is clearly ages old. Uri used to rotate the arm of a compass. I remember Martin Breese sold something where a bar rotated under a glass cover. Putting the m***** in a pen was original with you; but are you arguing that from now anything that causes rotation through a m***** should be yours? Or just writing implements?


I knew it would only be a matter of time before this conversation would degenerate to this level. I have nothing more to say if this is the kind of nonsense that's going to be posted here. And the sad part is that you somehow think you are being smart ...
El Mystico
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That's sad; I've said I'm fan; I've told you I've ought most of your material. Including your pen.
I've said Paul is using the method you used.

I'm just looking for clarity on what you think is your idea here. I don't understand why you don't want to make it cleer.
celebrity
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As a creator myself I know how frustrating it is when your ideas are used without permission and concent (I've been on the end of this myself). So whilst I can understand Richards frustration, I hope that he realises that no ill intent was intended when launching this product.

Since Paul was not aware of Osterlinds contribution his creative influences for this effect came from other sources such as Banachek and Cesaral (from memory) who also have work in this area. Based upon those effects already in existence Paul naturally felt that he had something worthy to contribute with his PK pencil variation (which used a different modus operandi).

Since Paul is now aware of Osterlinds origination I'm sure he will take this into both careful and ethical consideration with regards to the future of his idea.

Please note that I have full respect for both parties here and wish for an amicable resolve either way (as I'm sure both Paul and Richard do too). Having spoken to both Paul and Richard privately in the past I'm sure this will all be worked out.

Best Wishes Michael
As a mentalist you must always ask yourself what if! And throughout your life you should seek to ask and answer this question over and over again, only then will your wildest dreams become a reality!

Visit - www.mindfx.co.uk to learn more!
Richard Osterlind
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I started off here with the attitude of wanting to work this out, but Paul hasn't responded to me and the logic of some of these posts make me want to become violent!
LarsA
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Just for clarity - I have no association with Paul - never met him or mailed him.

But I've dug out what I have in the hope of helping clarity.

I have the instructions for the Psychodrome from Martin Breese. The notes are dated 2010 - so 5 years after Richard's 2005 Perfected Centre Tear book. However, the notes say the effect was first released in 2001. I cannot verify this. In this effect, a wooden arrow rotates. Using the method being discussed here.
The notes say the principle came from Werry's 'Paranormal' - where a piece of paper folded into a dome would rotate. Breese does not give a date for this, but there was a discussion here in 2003 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=109 And I recall performing it for my wife - it must have been in 1990 - 93, before she became ill.

Again, I'll say I'm doing this only to help clarity; I respect Richard, and I like his pen.
Jared
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This is a blatant rip-off and should be pulled immediately from the market. A pencil or pen it makes no difference. I cannot believe that Richard should even have to justify his position.
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