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M_Glow New user 11 Posts |
I would be wary of any organization or person that held "rank" in magic in the way that a karate studio would, but I've always wondered what my "ranking" would be as a magician in terms of the colored belt system of karate and judo.
Perhaps someone who, with cards in hand, has worked through and understands all of Card College (for example) would be a black belt in card magic. Likewise someone who has worked through Expert Coin Magic or Modern Coin Magic. I'm curious as to what other magicians think of this. In this mind experiment, what do you think the requirements would be to obtain the rank of black belt in magic? |
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I think I like the idea. I guess one could set up a magic university, where one could take the exams in the various subjects with regard to the mechanics. What is on the ground is easier to measure but it is hard to measure the atmosphere. “Manipulative processes are only one small very portion of the means whereby the purposes of art are served. They are useful-indeed they are indispensable. But so are the brushes of the painter, and the chisels of the sculptor. In the work of an artist, mere handicraft has a value very little higher than that of the utensils employed therein. The only adjunct to which pride of place may be assigned is the artistic brain which conceives and directs the purposes of handicraft and utensils alike.” NM and all that. One can't prove love. How entertaining are you?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
drewer New user NoVa 100 Posts |
There is another very similar discussion which started a few years ago: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=235951&forum=108&30&start=0#29.
I really like the idea of creating a system like this, but I don't think it's truly possible. You cannot truly quantify someone's magician abilities, in my opinion. Magic is an art and I don't really think that art can be categorized as such. Sure, maybe you can say that people are beginners, intermediates, or masters, but I don't think you can get much more specific than that. This is because everyone does different types of magic, has their own personality, and different ways to entertain an audience. There are also people who are good at manipulation and can fool anyone, but they are not entertaining to a lay audience. How would you categorize this type of person? This is why I believe that magic contests don't actually prove anyone's magical abilities, just their ability to do a backpalm. And these competitions are judged based on the judges' opinions, not on anything quantifiable (This is assuming that quantities are more solid evidence than opinions because you can't deny statistics, but you can challenge opinions). That's, of course, just my heavily bias opinion (haha). My goal in magic is to entertain an audience, so my ultimate judge is their satisfaction which is their own opinion. Others may believe that the goal of magic is to just fool them, and I'm not one to criticize their goals. Thanks, Drew |
donny Loyal user Colorado 263 Posts |
Average "time in service" for a Black Belt is 2-3 years, two sessions/week.
I've heard it said that getting your Black Belt is akin to "scratching the surface" of the art itself. Perhaps the comparison is somewhat accurate. After your Black Belt, you soon enter promotions, 3rd or 4th Dan, based on leadership and political connections (read magic performance for public). I've earned a Black Belt and have practiced Magic as hobbyist for 7 years.
It's not their senses that mislead, it's their assumptions.
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M_Glow New user 11 Posts |
Right. In Judo, a black belt is still difficult to obtain (I personally dropped out after a month with bruised ribs) and is merely an indicator of competency, an indication that one can practice the sport.
My original thought experiment is hard to hold onto. One could be an entertainer doing entirely self-working tricks, without ever studying someone like Ed Marlo or Dai Vernon, or other masters. I know plenty of magicians who make their living as entertainers, but haven't achieved a higher understanding of cards or coins. They are successful by the force of their own personal magnetism.Is that the equivalent of a "black belt in magic?" Probably. |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I'll stick with a white belt - people know I'm using trickery even though they might not sense what or where the trickery is.
Do I want a yellow belt - audiences believing that I know some real magic and use trickery sometimes?... Nah. Strictly a beginner here who thinks of magical effects as roughly equivalent to punchlines in humor.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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donny Loyal user Colorado 263 Posts |
...with all due...You're advanced "Black" Mr Townsend!!
It's not their senses that mislead, it's their assumptions.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
I actually have a black belt and instructorship certificate in the Martial Arts. TKD and Silat. I have done some JKD/Kali and BJJ as well. A lifelong passion. Currently doing Karate.
And I do incorporate Martial Arts with my magic. With both Arts, the problem is always with any certification. What does it mean in the real world? Can you really fight? Can you really entertain? Ranks are only important if you want to open a school. Nothing wrong with that really. There are dance and acting schools. Belts are mere 'certificates' in Martial Arts to denote time and syllabus covered. You still have to prove yourself in the real world anew every time. I say it's all good if it motivates... In Martial Arts or Magic. Just don't lose perspective of the end goal in Magic, that of entertaining the audience...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Michael Kamen Inner circle Oakland, CA 1315 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-07-23 22:34, Jonathan Townsend wrote: ka ching.
Michael Kamen
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
A lifetime of study and practical application
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
It's all a bunch of BS.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-07-28 21:35, Steve_Mollett wrote: Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel, Steve?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Okay. It's all great, bulgy yarblockos!
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-07-29 18:47, Steve_Mollett wrote: :hysteric:
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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