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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
Strong Magic is one of my favorite magic books, and I wouldn't part with it. Several of my favorite presentations came to me while reading this book. I respectfully disagree that it is most useful for beginners. I think the more you know about magic and the more you perform and create your own effects and presentations, the more useful this book is to you.
Someone said that many "celebrities" panned this book. Well, here's a partial list of people who think it's an exceptional book: Juan Tamariz, David Williamson, Paul Gertner, David Roth, Michael Skinner, John Carney, Bob Read. Now anyone who has been in magic for any length of time knows that the people on that list are among the greatest technicians AND performers of all time. So clearly, this book is not just "common sense" that anyone would have thought of anyway. Tamariz called it "enormously practical...it enriches you as an artist." Williamson: "It should be every serious close up worker's next purchase." Gertner: "Just reading it was motivating. I icorporated some of darwin's suggestions into my presentations the same day I read them." Roth: "Every magician should read it." Skinner: "He has captured the essence of creative showmanship for magicians." Carney: "Study and learn." Read: "I found [the] book fascinating--but more important, bloody useful." Now there are going to be those who took logic or debate in high school or college who are going to jump in here and and accuse me of using higher powers or authorities as the basis of my argument, etc, etc, etc. But my point is simply this: EVERY person on that list is an EXTREMELY proficient magician who is as famous or more famous than Darwin and who has performed literally THOUSANDS of shows for real people. And they ALL learned from the book and feel that anyone serious about performing close up magic should read it and study it. NONE said you should always agree with Darwin--even he doesn't say that. I love this book, but I don't agree with him about everything. However, even when I didn't agree with him, he made me THINK about WHY I held my opinions. That alone is worth many times the cost of the book to me. I read this book every year or so, and I am a much better magician because of it. If you don't own it, my recommendation is that you beg, borrow or buy a copy of it before you get any other book on close up magic.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I have known Darwin Ortiz for many years. Although he is primarily known as an exposer of crooked gambling, he is not only quite capable of putting on a good magic show, he is very good at it. When he takes the time to write about performance, I know that it is based on things he has seen, done and learned over a vast career. I generally take notice of what he has said.
This is also true of David Roth. Sometimes we forget that these fellows do perform for lay audiences as well as for magicians. Several years ago, our magic club had invited David to do a lecture for us, which took place the night before our annual Christmas Party. Our treasurer conned him into staying an extra night and performing close-up at the party. More than half of the attendees were lay people. David slew the audience. It was great fun watching him entertain as well as amaze. Don't let the petty biases of the uninformed and the inexperienced shape your purchase of a wonderful book.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
I will certainly agree with my friend Bill Palmer. I thoroughly enjoyed reading Strong Magic, and have read it through more than once. I do not always agree with Darwin, but mostly. I find a lot of great ideas, and thought-provoking suggestions in the book. If it were all common sense, then I find most of it very "uncommon" in the magic world. Anyone that did not find original and stimulating ideas in the book did not read it carefully enough, or else, perhaps, was just not ready for the teaching....
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Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-12-07 18:44, Mark Ennis wrote: I have never said Darwin or Roth were bad preformers, pchosse. At the start of my magic "career" I never really cared for their magic, but as I grow as a magician I respect their work. However, I wish I could retract that Wilson comment because I was getting a little defensive (I said it more to prove a point). Mark had an interesting quote, but I think that's just common sense. Maybe I read this book "wrong." If I had offended anyone or alienated some people(pchosse), it wasn't my intention. This was just for discussion and I respect the opinons posted here. Lee |
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
I think Whit sums it up.
I can only add two points regarding the view that Darwin brags in this book. First, the best way for us to judge the veracity and worth of a performer's advice is if it is provided in the context of tangible examples. The fact that Darwin illustrates his points using examples from his repertoire should be applauded. (Though he also uses many examples from other people's work--both good and bad). Second, many people fail to appreciate that there is a lot of humour in Darwin's writing and cannot separate the character he plays from the author. This is complicated by the fact that he moves seamlessly from rational analysis and explanation to biting satire--so maybe the book is just too sophisticated for some readers. Personally, I enjoy Darwin's sense of humour, which is very dark at times. His little digs which might *** the egos of some are, for me, an essential part of the charm of the book. Of course, if you approach a book with huge preconceptions (and possibly misconceptions), then you may be doing yourself a disservice. Best Andrew PS. Paul Chosse - did you get my PM? *********** Having reread my post, I notice the ultra-conservative vulgarity bot has automatically removed a word which means "pierce." Just so you know. ASW
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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Kjellstrom Inner circle Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe 5203 Posts |
I have seen Mr Darwin "live" and he is a true master of his craft. Thanks to his book, my own magic has been going to much higher levels. Darwin's book has helped me a lot in "real" life performances.
After all the books I have read, I think Darwin Ortiz's books are in a class by themselves. |
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jasonchr Regular user North Carolina 173 Posts |
I have seen the play here in Charlotte with David and Darwin twice. I had seen neither perform before, so I had high expectations for both of them, since they are considered masters of their craft. I have to say that I found David's routines to be practically flawless and wonderfully executed. It was a great experience to see him perform. Darwin, on the other hand, really disappointed me with his performance both times I saw him.
I have not read Strong Magic so I cannot comment directly on the book, but Darwin failed to apply what seem to me to be basic principles of magic theory. For example, in Leading With Your Head, Gary Kurtz talks about using an Open Position to keep from attracting suspicion. But many times Darwin drew suspicion upon what he was doing, whether he was executing a sleight or not. Even the layperson I brought to the show agreed that many of Darwin's actions were suspicious. This is not to say, however, that all the effects he performed were bad; he did several very well and the audience really enjoyed them. But he didn't seem to be consistent in the way he performed. It's almost ironic because in the play, David talks about holding one's hands naturally when performing, yet this is the exact opposite of what Darwin did! Frankly, I had expected him to be a lot better. Perhaps he had concerns about angles?? Anyway, if anyone else has any other comments on Darwin's performance, I'd love to hear them.... Jason
The aspirant should acquire the resolve to explore and expand his talents to the best of his ability. With a thorough commitment to quality comes a sense of accomplishment and unique satisfaction.
John Carney |
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
That's the first poor review I've read about Darwin in that play. Just goes to show. Are you sure this isn't a subjective assessment based on your own stylistic tastes? It's okay if it is.
Besides, as you said, the audience enjoyed his performances.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts |
Darwin's material isn't angly so I am not sure what suspicious moves he did. He was great when my wife and I saw him (the rest of the audience thought so too).
What effects aroused suspicion?
ME
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jasonchr Regular user North Carolina 173 Posts |
Quote:
Are you sure this isn't a subjective assessment based on your own stylistic tastes? I wondered that myself at first, thinking maybe I was too critical. But after talking with other laypeople and magicians who attended (about 7 or 8 people total), there does seem to be somewhat of a consesus that his technique was lacking in some of the tricks. In a way, this is all relative too. Darwin is definitely better than some magicians I have seen, but I was expecting better since he is supposed to be one of the greatest. Quote:
What effects aroused suspicion? One example is the routine he did with the four queens where they vanished and were reproduced from the wallet and car key case the spectators had been holding from the beginning. At one point in the routine he does a Mercury card fold. When he did it, however, his hands were held very close to his chest and they looked unnatural as he finished the fold. Later on, during intermission, I heard some laypeople across the aisle comment that they weren't sure how he got the cards inside the wallet and key case, but he was doing something funny when he held the deck. I don't think that most of the laypeople had any idea what he was doing, but it seemed that he was doing "something." On the other hand, his cards across routine was done very well and was the best thing he did, IMO. Every sleight was natural and motivated and created a real miracle in the minds of the spectators. I just don't understand why he doesn't apply the principles he uses in that effect to some of the others he performed that night. Jason
The aspirant should acquire the resolve to explore and expand his talents to the best of his ability. With a thorough commitment to quality comes a sense of accomplishment and unique satisfaction.
John Carney |
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trickiewillie Regular user Virginia 128 Posts |
Quote:
There does seem to be somewhat of a consesus that his technique was lacking in some of the tricks. Haven't seen the show, but maybe he was having a bad day that day. We all know that some performances are better than others. Maybe he was not feeling well. Maybe he had injured his hand. I have no idea, but I just wanted to point out that it might have been that particular show rather than his general technique. |
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-12-11 13:04, jasonchr wrote: I've seen Darwin do this effect ("The Showdown") professionally to tremendous audience response. I perform it myself and it's a candidate for one of the greatest card tricks of all time. My recollection of Darwin's performances does not tally with your own experiences, but as someone noted, he might have been having a bad day, or whatever. Still, I'll take your word for it. Regarding audience comments about performers "doing something". Sometimes they have seen something suspicious--equally, sometimes they say that they've seen something because, for complex reasons, they need people to know that they "weren't REALLY fooled." I've heard laymen say the same things after witnessing a Ricky Jay show and I knew it was total BS. I've heard people say similar things filing out of Magic Castle close up shows (including my own). Usually it's men who feel the need to say this--maybe they're engineers 9 to 5 or maybe they just have low self-esteem? I wouldn't lose any sleep over it and, since the majority of the shows in Charlotte ended with standing ovations, I doubt Darwin would either. Best Andrew
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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jasonchr Regular user North Carolina 173 Posts |
Andrew,
Thanks for the response. Your comments about the audience seeing "something" were very insightful and that could have been the reason for the comments (it was a man making them, too!). Let me say again that it was not the construction of the effects that bothered me--in many cases, including "The Showdown," they were brilliantly constructed. It was just his execution of some of the sleights that bothered me. But I don't want to make this too big of a deal. I think the play as a whole is wonderful and I hope it has tremendous success when it travels across the country. I think it will do a lot to bring respect to magic and help convince people of the art it contains. I heard many comments from laypeople about how the play exceeded their expectations and gave them a new appreciation for close-up magic. I think the play will be very good for the world of magic and I encourage everyone to see it if it comes to your town. Jason P.S. - Darwin does the Invisible Palm Aces extremely well! His revelation of the "palmed" card looks like real magic....
The aspirant should acquire the resolve to explore and expand his talents to the best of his ability. With a thorough commitment to quality comes a sense of accomplishment and unique satisfaction.
John Carney |
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markjens Loyal user N. CA 213 Posts |
Having read and thoroughly enjoyed this book, I would love the opportunity to see Mr. Ortiz work. I learned nearly as much the second time I read it as the first. By the way, if anyone has needs of a copy of this fine book, Mr. Kaufman has five copies on e-bay right now. They are on a five day auction, so go get them. If you need somewhere to look, his username is moobooks. Hope this helps someone land a copy; it sure took me long enough to get my second (loaned out the first--stupid).
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
Despite a few people getting their hopes up earlier this year, I think Kaufman is unlikely to reprint Strong Magic in the short to long term--or if ever.
Good luck finding a copy. Andrew
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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didgemagic New user California 35 Posts |
I am not so sure that Kaufman has the rights to Strong Magic anymore. Last time I asked him when the reprint is due, he told me, "I thought it would be reprinted already, but it has not. Don't really know when." And I seem to remember reading (probably on the Genii forum) that he had sold the rights...but don't quote me.
Didgemagic |
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Schaden Inner circle Purgatory 1253 Posts |
How much does a copy of Strong Magic go for?
Thanks, Lee |
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Dave Egleston Special user Ceres, Ca 632 Posts |
So far on ebay--at this moment 4 copies have a bid of $50.00 and 1 book has a bid of $61.00.
Dave |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
I haven't seen Darwin perform but I've read and reviewed his first book and also studied STRONG MAGIC.
I was right with him up until he contradicted himself in his discussion of Jennings’ "The Homing Card" and his presentation of it. He rails against doing anything to diminish one’s image in the eyes of the audience and then tells a "humorous" story about how someone insisted he teach him how to do a card trick and upon relenting, things went so badly that he ended up causing the poor layman’s death. His presentation is designed to overcome the "weakness" of Mike Skinner’s script, which involves the magician admitting to his father besting him at a card trick. In the Ortiz script the magician doesn’t look "weak" but does end up killing someone... I think there are better ways to present the effect. However... STRONG MAGIC is valuable because even when he’s "wrong" he’s asking the right questions. If you read the book and think about what he’s asking you to think about you’ll have gotten much more than your money’s worth. If you read it and find that you already "know it all" then pat yourself on the back, put it aside and read it again in a year. It never hurts to remind ourselves of the things we know, if they’re important things. There are very, very, few books on magic that really ask much of their audience, beyond the mere stretching of some muscles and tendons. STRONG MAGIC insists that you think about what you are doing, why you are doing it, and what impact this will have on your audiences. No one who claims to be a performer should ignore this work. Just my two cents... I could be wrong. |
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