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Michael Jay
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My apologies, Tony, I was wrong. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong in the future. It happens. That would have had to have been around 4 years back, so I know that an open minded guy like you will forgive me for not remembering such a thing. Fact is, I've dealt with that forum for 12 years now and a lot of things have happened that I cannot remember. So, you have my sincere apology for my mistake.

Also, it was a thread that was becoming super heated and the ban that you received was, more than likely, wrongful. It was only for a week, though, and your account was reinstated. I wish I could remember everything that went on behind the scenes, but that was 4 years ago. Again, you have my unequivocal apology for that.

Mike.
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Michael Jay
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I have to post an addendum, here. I've taken the time to research the thread that got you a week long ban. I found the following...

Tony: I do not do tolerance. I am a committed and aggressive rationalist. I learnt that attitude from the religious nuts who suppressed reason and science for centuries.

Mike: First, if you don't do tolerance then you have no business getting in on this conversation. Keep your intolerance to yourself.

Tony: Michael, creationism is not wrong because I believe it is wrong. It is demonstratably wrong, as 150 years of scientific endeavour have shown. It has nothing to do with personal belief. And that is why we will fight against it being taught and promoted.

Mike: If you want to debate and discuss and attack others for their beliefs, you will NOT do it on this thread.

Tony: <continues debating on that thread>

Mike: I have told you what I expect on this thread. It is not open to debate. If you decide that you somehow trump me with your debating skills, then continue the way you are going and see what happens. You have been fairly warned.

Tony: <continues debating on that thread>

Even after I explained that you had every right to start another thread and talk about any topic you pleased, you still continued after receiving fair warning that you would be given a ban. You could have started another thread and nothing would have happened to you, but you didn't do that - you continued on your merry way, ignoring the warnings that I gave you and everyone involved on that thread.

Nevertheless, my apology still stands.

Mike.
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TonyB2009
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Thank you, Michael. It is appreciated.
TonyB2009
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Out of curiosity, was anyone else banned as a result of that thread? I seem to remember I was only responding vigorously because I was being challenged vigorously.
Michael Jay
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No, the thread died shortly after I handed out the first ban - that ban being you.

And Tony, I really am sorry for what happened.

Mike.
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TonyB2009
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Hi Mike.
I really appreciate what you have posted over the past few hours.
And I completely withdraw my snide remarks about the MagicBunny.
Thank you and all the best, Tony
TonyB2009
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On the original topic, I know nothing about the origins of the Bistro, so cannot comment. I can say I found it a cool place to hang out, I enjoyed the mix of posters (for the most part), Mark Lewis was rarely banned (a positive in my view), and I found James friendly and likable. That was enough for me.
Michael Jay
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I am pleased that we could bring this to an amicable conclusion, Tony. All is well!

While I replied to you and the jolly guy, I accidentally ignored Ken's post...

Quote:
Ken wrote:
I appreciate your response, Jay, but I still don’t know what you mean by ‘underhanded.’ It was formed as an alternative place to discuss magic without the usual moderation polices of the other forums.


When The Bistro was first announced on our pages, many of our members jumped on board and/or wished them well. I was more than happy to allow them to get a leg up via our pages. Their initial advertising on our forums was okay, but then it started to become an aggressive campaign to get members from our site over to theirs. I still allowed it, but was getting increasingly annoyed.

That's when derogatory posts started surfacing on The Bistro in regard to my forum and Paul Pacific came out telling everyone what a great job he was doing pulling in members off of my site.

As it turned out, Paul Pacific was posting under the name "Mind Feet" on my forum and talking in third person about himself. He used that as a way to continue to advertise The Bistro and Jolly Roger, knowing full well what Pacific was up to, fed him lines while the two of them talked about Paul Pacific in the third person. All this in order to push The Bistro on my pages.

It was a sleazy way of going about things, particularly considering that Magic Bunny was allowing them to advertise their site without problem. They had the opportunity to use my site to make both sites better and stronger, but, instead, they metaphorically spit in my face and laughed about it on The Bistro. It was sleazy and it was dirty. James Munton turned a blind eye.

Now I understand that you like these guys and probably consider them to be friends. I don't expect in any way that your opinion of them will change. However, I feel very differently about them than you do and there will always be bad blood between them and me. I was pleased that their site lasted only 2 years and my own human shortcomings brought me to post my original post on this thread. From my chair, I view The Bistro as having been started via sleazy and underhanded tactics and, as a result, I am not surprised that it came to the end that it did.

A shame, really, because we could have cross promoted each other and maybe, just maybe, The Bistro would still be going strong.

Mike.
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TonyB2009
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I was not a member during the early days of the Bistro, and have no idea how they promoted it. I just saw a few mentions on the magiccafe. But if your account is accurate, I would have found that as irritating as you obviously did.

I think it is very easy to fall out over the internet, whereas if we were all dealing with each other face to face we might see and correct our own faults, and see and overlook the other man's.
Jolly Roger
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Quote:
On Apr 30, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
I am pleased that we could bring this to an amicable conclusion, Tony. All is well!

While I replied to you and the jolly guy, I accidentally ignored Ken's post...

Quote:
Ken wrote:
I appreciate your response, Jay, but I still don’t know what you mean by ‘underhanded.’ It was formed as an alternative place to discuss magic without the usual moderation polices of the other forums.


When The Bistro was first announced on our pages, many of our members jumped on board and/or wished them well. I was more than happy to allow them to get a leg up via our pages. Their initial advertising on our forums was okay, but then it started to become an aggressive campaign to get members from our site over to theirs. I still allowed it, but was getting increasingly annoyed.

That's when derogatory posts started surfacing on The Bistro in regard to my forum and Paul Pacific came out telling everyone what a great job he was doing pulling in members off of my site.

As it turned out, Paul Pacific was posting under the name "Mind Feet" on my forum and talking in third person about himself. He used that as a way to continue to advertise The Bistro and Jolly Roger, knowing full well what Pacific was up to, fed him lines while the two of them talked about Paul Pacific in the third person. All this in order to push The Bistro on my pages.

It was a sleazy way of going about things, particularly considering that Magic Bunny was allowing them to advertise their site without problem. They had the opportunity to use my site to make both sites better and stronger, but, instead, they metaphorically spit in my face and laughed about it on The Bistro. It was sleazy and it was dirty. James Munton turned a blind eye.

Now I understand that you like these guys and probably consider them to be friends. I don't expect in any way that your opinion of them will change. However, I feel very differently about them than you do and there will always be bad blood between them and me. I was pleased that their site lasted only 2 years and my own human shortcomings brought me to post my original post on this thread. From my chair, I view The Bistro as having been started via sleazy and underhanded tactics and, as a result, I am not surprised that it came to the end that it did.

A shame, really, because we could have cross promoted each other and maybe, just maybe, The Bistro would still be going strong.

Mike.


This is simply not true, Michael. Paul Pacific and I rarely speak to each other, as Paul for some odd reason doesn't seem to like me very much. He prefers talking to his feet, it would seem!!!!!! This whole thing is so ridiculous, that I really think that you should move on. All is forgiven, whatever "all" is!!!
JR
James Munton
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Mike,

I am sorry that you are upset. I would like to respond to a couple of points.

There was never a marketing plan or concerted effort to "steal" members from other sites. The whole thing was a very amateur attempt to provide a little place for people to meet and chat without being censored or moderated. I honestly don't remember any of the conversations you mention. I don't remember anyone mocking your forum. And if they did, it is not a case of me turning a blind eye, it was the fact that the Bistro was completely unmoderated! I now realize it was a bit naive to think that an unmoderated forum would work, because people get all silly on the Internet and say things to each other that they would probably not do in person.

I am sure you have had people make comments on your forum that you disagree with or find unpleasant. Perhaps you delete those posts or ban the poster. Well, on the Bistro there was a policy to allow anything and everyone! There were some awful arguments. On occasion, I did try to calm people down behind the scenes, but it didn't really work. So, I ended up banning a few people and deleting a few posts and then we became just like all the other forums. End of experiment.

As I mentioned earlier, the saddest thing for me is that along the way, so many people like you have become annoyed or upset. I really didn't intend for that. The whole thing was started with the best of intentions.

And please let me defend Roger and Paul. I do not think I ever saw their posts on your forum. As I said, I honestly don't remember any of this. But you really must know that there is not an ounce of malice in Jolly Roger whom I know well. He is playful and silly and perhaps he was over-enthusiastic. If he was getting into shenanigans with Paul, it would have been because he thought it was all a jolly good wheeze. I have never heard Roger express a mean thought about anyone! I don't know Paul as well, but he is similar to Roger in that he is a bit of a trixter and a naughty schoolboy. The funny thing is that though they are quite similar, they really don't get on very well and Roger irritates Paul tremendously!

But look, the long and short of it is that I just don't want the Bistro to be the cause of any hard feelings. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have lost friends because of it which is absolutely tragic. You seem to have great bitterness about the place and I would love for you to be able to let it go and not let it cause you any more anger.

So please accept my apology for anything improper that was ever done by Bistro members, or even myself for that matter.

Best,
James
Jolly Roger
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Sedona, Arizona
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Quote:
On Apr 30, 2014, James Munton wrote:
Mike,

I am sorry that you are upset. I would like to respond to a couple of points.

There was never a marketing plan or concerted effort to "steal" members from other sites. The whole thing was a very amateur attempt to provide a little place for people to meet and chat without being censored or moderated. I honestly don't remember any of the conversations you mention. I don't remember anyone mocking your forum. And if they did, it is not a case of me turning a blind eye, it was the fact that the Bistro was completely unmoderated! I now realize it was a bit naive to think that an unmoderated forum would work, because people get all silly on the Internet and say things to each other that they would probably not do in person.

I am sure you have had people make comments on your forum that you disagree with or find unpleasant. Perhaps you delete those posts or ban the poster. Well, on the Bistro there was a policy to allow anything and everyone! There were some awful arguments. On occasion, I did try to calm people down behind the scenes, but it didn't really work. So, I ended up banning a few people and deleting a few posts and then we became just like all the other forums. End of experiment.

As I mentioned earlier, the saddest thing for me is that along the way, so many people like you have become annoyed or upset. I really didn't intend for that. The whole thing was started with the best of intentions.

And please let me defend Roger and Paul. I do not think I ever saw their posts on your forum. As I said, I honestly don't remember any of this. But you really must know that there is not an ounce of malice in Jolly Roger whom I know well. He is playful and silly and perhaps he was over-enthusiastic. If he was getting into shenanigans with Paul, it would have been because he thought it was all a jolly good wheeze. I have never heard Roger express a mean thought about anyone! I don't know Paul as well, but he is similar to Roger in that he is a bit of a trixter and a naughty schoolboy. The funny thing is that though they are quite similar, they really don't get on very well and Roger irritates Paul tremendously!

But look, the long and short of it is that I just don't want the Bistro to be the cause of any hard feelings. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have lost friends because of it which is absolutely tragic. You seem to have great bitterness about the place and I would love for you to be able to let it go and not let it cause you any more anger.

So please accept my apology for anything improper that was ever done by Bistro members, or even myself for that matter.

Best,
James


Well said James!!! If the USA were sensible like England, and had a monarchy, you would make an excellent King. Alternatively, I think you would also be jolly good presiding over the United Nations as peacemaker!!! JR
Smile Smile
James Munton
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No! It would be World War III within days.
Jolly Roger
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JR
Michael Jay
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Thank you, James, for that lengthy post. I'm pleased to put this in the past and recognize that all is forgiven and forgotten. Hopefully our paths will cross one day and we'll be able to have a beer and shoot the stuff. I'll buy!

On a side note to JR:

I've not asked your forgiveness as there is nothing for you to forgive. You might not remember your abuses on my forum, but I have the threads and they are there for anyone to research. So, don't forgive me as I've offered you no apology. I am impressed by your chutzpah though (you'll probably take that as a compliment).

Mike.
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Police Magician
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For me, The Magic Bistro was like a family. I know I did post a lot of things about myself and did not contribute that much to magic. What I did post were the safety shows, con game and carnival game fraud topics that I have been involved with in education of the public.

I loved the podcasts James did and was honored to be among those chosen, although I did not feel I was in the company of those who were much more professional than me, like James, Jolly Roger, Mark Lewis and Paul Pacific, to name a few.

I also enjoyed Michael's articles in "VISONS" each month. I have learned a lot from the many forums I have been associated with.

One of things I love about James is his book, "The Con" and his internet safety show he does for children and teaching them to protect themselves from the criminals who prey on young people.

Mark Lewis showed a side to me that many do not know. He is compassionate and gave me the titles of some books to help me deal with the rage within.

I miss the Bistro and wish it could be resurrected.
Jolly Roger
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Quote:
On May 1, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
Thank you, James, for that lengthy post. I'm pleased to put this in the past and recognize that all is forgiven and forgotten. Hopefully our paths will cross one day and we'll be able to have a beer and shoot the stuff. I'll buy!

On a side note to JR:

I've not asked your forgiveness as there is nothing for you to forgive. You might not remember your abuses on my forum, but I have the threads and they are there for anyone to research. So, don't forgive me as I've offered you no apology. I am impressed by your chutzpah though (you'll probably take that as a compliment).

Mike.


Michael, you are simply wrong on this. I never abused your forum, so I have not got a clue what you are talking about. It is also not true that the threads are there for anyone to research. I, for one, am not allowed to research them because I am unable to gain access to yout forum. Having said all that, I have no doubt that you are a wonderful divine spirit moving through the murky waters of planet earth in one of many lifetimes, so you have a false perception of things sometimes, as we all do. Now..can we please all move on? Jolly Good!!! Smile Smile JR
MickNZ
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Quote:
On Apr 30, 2014, Jolly Roger wrote:
Well said James!!! If the USA were sensible like England, and had a monarchy, you would make an excellent King.


They wouldn't allow a King who dressed in a baseball cap. Or one in a green dress, for that matter.
Mindpro
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Was magic ever discussed there? From what I saw it seemed like members used it to vent and talk about everything else but the business of magic or entertainment. That was my first impression with two minutes of visiting with a member trying to have me join.
TonyB2009
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Yes, Mindpro, a lot of magic was discussed, particularly in the family magic section.
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