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Tim Zager
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You may find something of use here...

http://www.godfreygroup.com/banner.html

Tim
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Magic.J.Manuel
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OK, for small shows I've got only a boom box for music, and no backdrop. But, for mid to larger shows, I am trying to get into, I just got a Fender PD150 with large speaker stands. I then got an 8ft. curtain rod I can rig between the speaker poles. And a kids room set of curtains with stars and castles. The speakers will work behind me with anti-feedback so the whole thing is an integrated sound and backdrop set. I can also position a flying carpet so the screen can be removed. I need a bag to put it in, quick setup if the curtain stays on the rod, plus the speaker stand bag. This is too much equipment for small shows but will be a good fit for small stage/gym auditorium shows. And it looks good with the speakers topping the ends.
Nothing would get done at all, if man waited so long that no one could find fault with it.
mghia
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Quote:
On 2003-12-11 10:10, DenDowhy wrote:
Wal-Mart sells a queen size portable air-mattress bed, which is placed on a "spider-like" frame. (Resell the bed to recoup some funds.) You would also need to buy the cloth, then Velcro or sew it on the frame. Barry suggests perma-press cloth so frame and cloth can dropped down together. A real nice touch. It used bigger tubing than the "Spider and a little heavier but it looks well.

Does Barry discuss any of his routines in his book?
Barry discusses many of his routines as well as giving you permission to use them. His book will be a classic.

See Barry Mitchell's Website for more information on this book and the cool original products he sells.

This frame can be found at this online Wal-Mart Site for a real low price, about half of what others are selling it for.



I do not get it... Why do some magicians feel they have the right to reveal information in others lecture, notes, books or DVDs? Why should I buy their products if you are going to give me the info for free?
I consdider what you did Exposure since it is his idea. WHO cares if you give him credit. If you stated that he had a clever idea on his DVD or in his book and you should check it out, I would not have issue, but you not only told them WHAT to find but where to find it. It was not your information to provide.



Magicians, Looking for something that is cheaper than spider and sets up fast?
I have used a portable photgraphers backdrop for years. 10x10 tripod system made by Savage. Two tripods and a extending rod that all fits in a compact duffle bag. My curtain has rings and if I am alone it takes me no more than 3 mintues to thread the rod and set up the unit. If I am with someone, it takes about one minute to set up curtain and all and you have a pass through unlike with a spider.
My curtain is split in the middle if I need the pass through.

The only draw back is that if the curtain is too heavy it could sag in the middle slightly. A secondary pole could be propped if needed or just change the material. Other brands might hold more weight depending on how the bar is constructed.

Check the $1 per yard table at Wal-mart for great fabric. Do not use cotton but a lower wrinkle. I used a velor type material and it is tossed in trunk yet comes out with few if any wrinkles.

Buy curtain pleat bias and just by pulling a string you will have perfect pleats.

http://www.creativedesignbackgrounds.com has some Ok prices. If you scroll down you can see what I use. If you buy the one on sale with the Muslin, and are creative in painting, you can make your own custom backdrop. (Go to your local vocational school and get them to have the kids paint up your design for cost to get experience.- worth the price of this post)

I have seen them for $130-160
Donald Dunphy
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Mghia -

I see your point. Perhaps Den did give away too much information however, I believe that Barry Mitchell also shared this tip in a free teleconference call prior to the KidAbra Conference last year. I think that is where I heard it first, before he released his book. I don't know if that justifies the "share" that Den made or not.

I just thought I should mention it, because the way I learned about it wasn't at a paid lecture or in a book.

I know that Barry gives a lot more details about the concept in his book, which I don't have yet.

- Donald.

P.S. You can pass through the middle in some spider set ups. I don't own one, but I've been looking at them for a long time.

I have also used a photographers stand with great success (our magic club owns one, which they use and also rent to members). You are absolutely right, you need to check the crossbars for flex and bowing before buying them, to make sure they can support the weight of your curtains.

I don't think anyone has posted this yet, but here is a direct link to the Spider Backdrops website:

http://www.spiderbackdrop.com/

(In case you haven't seen the ads in the magic magazines.)

In North America, you can buy them through Laflin Magic. That link was shared earlier, on page one of this thread.

- Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
mghia
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I doubt many even heard of that teleconfrence unless they went to the convention and how do you know he was not paid in some way for it, even if it was to help sell his merchandise?

There is not much more detail that is needed. Enough info was given for one to find out what the prop is and then where to buy it that the reset a user could figure out.
Don, a Spider can only have a pass through if you join two together and leave space with the connecting brackets. An individual spider can not have a pass through.
Donald Dunphy
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Sorry, I had the impression that the Spider Backdrop actually included both halves, drapes for covering both halves, and also the connecting brackets for between the halves, and also a matching drape for the centre that matches the side drapes. As I understand, it does not include the mylar curtain to substitute in for the regular one (this is what you see in most photos). This is what I read online at the websites, expecially Laflin's description.

I thought that "an individual Spider" (as you called it) is perhaps half of a Spider Backdrop, not a whole backdrop. This is the impression I got from both Laflin's site and the Spider backdrop site. There should be no need to pass through the center of a backdrop that is only 5' wide. (One half = 5', second half = 5', connecting brackets = 2.5' = 12.5' total width).

Someone who owns one could correct me, if I am wrong. I would love to know more about that aspect.

- Donald.

P.S. mghia, I prefer to be called Donald, not Don. Thanks. Smile
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
mdspark
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Can someone direct me to a link to where I can see a "Banner-Box". If not can someone discribe it for me? Also, what is the price range? THANKS!
mghia
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Donald,
I could be wrong about it not coming as a complete set. I assumed they coudl purchase it in various configurations and think I saw it sold that way when it first came out.
The English version of the site was down when I looked to confirm and the products page in german also was not working properly when I checked today.

mdsspark- see above message from Dan , the banner box is not available at this time
kenscott
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Well the spider has worked well for me in my library and school shows. I cannot imagine not having them. If you are doing a lot of shows it is truely money well invested.

I have both spider drops. The big one and the small one. The big one is two put together I think 7feet tall. You join them together with the bars and put the curtain for the middle.

The small one is 6 feet and you cannot walk through this one. I love them both however I have been using the smaller one more because it is easier to set up.

For the record No Barry mitchell did not get paid for his tele conf. Yes he sells product. The idea is in his book. However, Barry wanted to find a way to make one cheaper than the spider, in doing this he had seen the spider back drop and was certain that he could make his own from material from walmart.

ken
NJJ
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I could only find the Walmart thing in 6foot. I found it at K-mart for $160 australia (about $100 US).
mghia
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Ken,
my point is everyone seems to be crediting BM for the idea of the do it your self version. You have a heard the phrase "worth the price of the book". Just because it is in print or on a dvd does not give someone the right to tell others who did not purchase the information.


The majority of the Café memembers never even heard of the teleconfrence.
The conference was for the promo of Kidabra or his appearance there no? So it was not like he was just giving the info for "free" and no matter what, does not mean others have the right to freely distribute the idea. Rather he might have given you the freedom to build your own.

My point is that magicians on the Café should take more time considering what is public domain knowledge and what is a disrespect to the innovator of an idea.
kenscott
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Mghia

You have a great point. I too sell products such as videos and notes. I would not like my stuff just given out over the board. However, I like many others would see things mentioned and would go ahead buy the book. That would be the right thing to do.

We are in a field of brotherhood and sharing with other entertainers.

Maybe since the Spider was already out there Barry should have not put this backdrop (to similar to the spider) in his book??

ken
Scott O.
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The Barry Mitchell idea really isn't a secret. It is only a re-application of a product that is being used elsewhere. I actually thought of using the bed frame for a do-it-yourself spider flex system when I saw the frame in a Wal*Mart sales flyer. It could also make a great portable stage too.

I do understand the ethics involved in not "tipping" a trick. But this application just made sense. Barry is not the only one to see that.

Scott Smile.
Do not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time you will reap a harvest, if you do not give up. Galatians 6:9
mghia
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Scott,
Anything could be applied to your theory. Any material method is not tipping the secret if I follow your logic.

While you may have thought of the idea as well, does that mean everyone did? Don't kid yourself. Most do not put two and two together. So pat yourself on the pack for also thinking the same. But since you did not think of putting notes on it, it does not mean you should feel it is ok to tell in a public forum.

On 2004-07-26 23:40, kenscott wrote:
Mghia

Maybe since the Spider was already out there Barry should have not put this backdrop (to similar to the spider) in his book??

ken


Ken,
Who taught you this was a "brotherhood of sharing with other entertainers."
Magic is most certainly not about sharing secrets with other magicians. Magic hinges on it's keeping secrets.

Sadly magicians use that phrase all the time but it is not true.

Houdini, Blackstone and all the greats would hold their secrets from each other to the point that stories of them sneaking around to obtain the secrets have been recounted.

Do not confuse this with being a brother/sisterhood to foster good magic. The greats created the popular clubs but that did not mean they shared all their secrets to no end.

It makes no sense to me that a working pro would give away his best stuff for others to use.
In fact, today, most of the top performers who have stuff out, only do so when they are finished using that material.
It is highly unlikely they would give you the info on the act getting them current work, or that they put out stuff they know most will never master like they have.

My point is that many hobby magicians have it all wrong.
Just because you consider yourself a magician does not mean you automatically get to know the secrets of others and it most certainly does not give you the right to share the ideas of others.

Most importantly, you have no ethical right to share them on a public board such as this.

I for one will let you tell me all your ideas. If a magician wants to spill his secrets I will take them. But he should not expect secrets in return just because he has loose lips. I might share thoughts and ideas on theory but I am not going to publicly push secrets or methods or sources on a public board.

Finally Ken, you are one of the rare few that will go buy a book out of respect for the secret you got through a board or word of mouth.
Most will take the free info and see no value in the book.
"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" is the way the majority will go.

Interesting point.
But this then tells me you assume the Spider system was invented by those people.
Since I do not own their system I can not tell you if they modified it or not,
but I will tell you the display industry was using such designs before they were sold to magicians.
Should Barry have put it in his book? Maybe since his way is not the same thing. It is a bulkier set up and not as stable.
It is an idea he had and put it in a book. It is not like he is competing against them with the product. But he has the right to if he wanted.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On 2004-07-26 23:40, kenscott wrote:
Mghia

Maybe since the Spider was already out there Barry should have not put this backdrop (to similar to the spider) in his book??

ken
mdspark
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I am in the process of making a Trimble Screen. Prior to covering it with fabric I will reinforce its strength with the product found here ... http://www.fxsupply.com/vanillacryl/vanillacryl.html

I am also going to make 2 smaller type of screens to block the side angles are are inevitible present when I do Library shows... Parents who seem to want to see the show...but don't want to join the audience (go figure, I think its a cultural thing around here..inspite of politely telling the person incharge that no one can be at the side or behind me, it is never enforced...) lurk behind me and to the side.

Thus, a couple of smaller "side screens" will put an end to this....

Anyone else had this problem come up?...The libraries in my area tend to be small, so some do not have the "ideal" place for a show.
Emazdad
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If anyone, is sitting or lurking to the side of me where I don't want them to be, I just ask them to move. I politly inform them that they'd get a better view from out the front. I then make a little joke about secrets to further enforce my suggestion.

However at some venues like holiday camps and social clubs the stage sometimes sticks out from the wall with no side curtains and the tables go right down both sides, or you can turn up to find the stage is full of the later adult acts stuff. (last week a 70's band took up the whole stage.

With no room on the stage you then end up performing in front of the stage on the dance floor, which means you end up with even more tables to the side and behind you. If you get a kid seeing inside the box, they can't resist shouting out to the other kids whats in there, thus spoiling some of the funny surprises.

A full backdrop would be no good as all my stuff has to be removed very quickly on completion, as there is other stuff going on straight after me and I have to remove my gear quickly on completeion. At one camp it's while the kids are being led in party dances by the ents staff, who are performing in front of my stuff, once I'm out the way they have more room.

One cheap and cheerful solution I came up with that looks quite good, is to hang a roller blind off the arm of a boom mic stand. I set this up next to my box to shield the back & side of my box from the people sitting that side. 1, they can't see in my box, or the side of the one trick which does have an angle issue, & 2 if they want to see the show they have to move round to the front.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
Donald Dunphy
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Quote:
mghia wrote: I for one will let you tell me all your ideas. If a magician wants to spill his secrets I will take them. But he should not expect secrets in return just because he has loose lips. I might share thoughts and ideas on theory but I am not going to publicly push secrets OR METHODS OR SOURCES on a public board.


I believe that secrets of magic should be kept secret on the forums. In fact, when I have read posts that expose secrets, I report them to the moderators (you can do the same, instead of complaining about it publicly).

However, you have just stated in this post that you are here to take ideas from other magicians, and not contibute anything back.

How can this fit the idea of "Magicians Helping Magicians", if you are going to just take, and not give?

There is an expression from a famous book, "What you sow, you will also reap". In the grand scheme of things, you can be a person who is "a taker", or a person who is "a giver". The people who are generous and sharing, are those most likely to do the same towards their customers and they will reap the profits of a generous spirit.

That being said, it doesn't mean we need to share every idea or tip we know or have heard of.

But it also doesn't mean that we shouldn't share any ideas or tips.

When I read your post, you made it sound like I was a fool for sharing on the forum, and helping others. You certainly didn't inspire me to continue posting.

Just some food for thought.

- Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
kenscott
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[quote]On 2004-07-31 19:42, mghia wrote:
Ken,
Who taught you this was a "brotherhood of sharing with other entertainers."
Magic is most certainly not about sharing secrets with other magicians. Magic hinges on its keeping secrets.

You've got to be kidding? The backdrop is not a secret, and yes sharing with other entertainers makes me better. There are plenty of bad performers and if I can help just one person to make their show better then you bet I am going to do that. If that means buying a spider backdrop or making one I would share that info for them. Help enough people get what they want and you will get what you want. From Zig Ziglar.

Ken
mghia
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I stated that I will take ideas. It is so funny how the bulk of magicians keep their own secrets yet are so willing to "share" the ideas of others!

I have contributed back but one should not expect to get something back if they give.

In life, the person who gives without the intent that he is owed is the one who truly understands the meaning of "to give."

This is about backdrops and I only stated that since the idea of the store bought version of the Spider was obtained from a book currently in print. That does not give that person the right to share freely the information.

Can't we agree that regarless if an idea is a secret or not, if you did not think of it but read it from another source, it is not public information for you or anyone to post?
Can't we agree on that? If not, why not
kenscott
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Mghia

I think you missed my "point". I have no problem with sharing. In fact a lot of stuff that I use in my show that is on my video that I sell to magicians has been disccussed on this forum.

No, I am not looking to get something in return if I share something. I mean let's get serious.

Ken
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