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Joseph Debever New user France 12 Posts |
Hello everyone!
Here is a new video, gambling/cheating demo! Shade style! Hope you'll enjoy! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy70ba_......creation |
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Bandaloop Regular user Dodging attacks for the past 195 Posts |
You're flashing the bottom card on your deuce.
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
You'd proabaly do well to drop all the pointless flourishing and card magic moves if you wanted constructive feedback from this forum.
If these are the videos you're comfortable with (and they're absolutely fine magic videos), then you're posting to the wrong forum. |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
I don't get it. Have you read the answers given in you other thread?
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Bobbycash Special user Australia 694 Posts |
Riffle pass for a gambling demo...
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
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splice Inner circle Canada 1246 Posts |
I stopped watching at 0:30 in. You might want to play a few games of poker or watch some videos, no one deals cards holding the deck like that, it's immediately suspicious.
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Before I am commenting on your video, and I have watched it, please tell me your experience in poker. Do you play it? Do you play it regularly? If yes, then ask yourself, is this resembling in any way basic cardhandling procedure at a table where money is at stake (and I think you know the answer to this already ).
Nice production quality btw! |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Poker is not the only card game and there are many variation of poker each with its own procedures. Moreover for magic one can do slop shuffles and anything else. The idea that one must stick to formal game procedures for magic is silly. Have you ever seen a magician do so?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-21 21:37, tommy wrote: I agree. JD is essentially doing card tricks and can get to it any way he so desires. However, by repeatedly dealing four aces and/or revealing four aces in various ways, it would tend to suggest the "flavor" of the tricks pertain to the game of poker. I think the question posed by Erdnase27 was basically to ascertain if JD ever played cards for money and by implication acquainted with reasonable card table shuffles and procedures. Since his manipulations have no relevance to any type of card game handling, I would think the question is valid although I think we all know the answer already. I don't see any problem with JD's cards tricks except that they really don't belong on the Gambling Spot BB. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I think the problem is he thinks that because spectators may think he is a gambler because of his patter he thinks gamblers do. Also this section being embedded in a magic forum might be a bit confusing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Only Cardsharks are allowed at the Gambling Spot. Which is we who go swimming with a card gripped between our butt cheeks.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Bobbycash Special user Australia 694 Posts |
It's an interesting proposition above.
Most of my friends know that I have an interest in cheating history, I often say I know a fair bit about gambling between say 1890-1990 as the techniques are available in books. Whilst I can do the techniques in practice, demonstrating a one card edge is hard to convey to people, rarely do I ever demonstrate a technique by itself. Usually a card trick with gambling patter works as it visually exagerates what kind of edge old school gambling techniques bring. Demonstrationing an old school Giorgio muck is fun for people that have seen 'The Sting' is fun but lets face it, isn't exactly exciting. Doing a 5 card muck though, flashy as hell! (Mind you if Cag ever teaches his real work bj muck I'll listen ). Do all my card sharking demonstrations follow a RRSR cut protocol? No, but in this section of the Café it should, or at least be applicable to such protocol |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-22 07:24, tommy wrote: I was wondering where that missing card went. You had it all the time you devil! And what a clever place to hold out in. I never would have thought of that. That is a new one on me, tommy. Keep up the good work. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I never did any gambling demonstrations, except when I was a teenager learning this stuff, but if I did I would ONLY aim to entertain. All my demonstrations would have good patter lines, be entertaining and interesting, tell a good story and the moves for the most part would be hidden in the demo to make it work. I would not hesitate to do pseudo moves or pseudo demos if it accomplished the purpose of being entertaining. I would never expose a good move - only exaggerated or out-of-date moves and keep the good stuff hidden in the presentations.
The first gambling demo I ever did as teenager was Vernon's Cutting the Aces with the patter line of the One-Armed gambler given in Stars of Magic series (modified for my use as a teenager.) In fact, I still think today that trick and patter line, when presented properly, is very good. I think JD's demo here could be made better with interesting patter or story lines rather than just the "juggling" type moves showing aces over and over again. But that is just my opinion, for what it is worth. |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
I do Gambling demos once in a while. "Real" stuff. I mean, there are always real players around and I demonstrate things they can see, face, etc. Never had a problem. I can even say that those guys are rather happy to see me "following" some procedures, which they are more or less used to.
Juggling and producing Aces makes no sense when you want to be serious about real play. Now, if you want to entertain, it's something different. Let's be honest, stacking a set "invisibly" is all but sexy, I mean for an audience wanting nothing but been entertained. They prefer dramatic displays of skills, and I understand them. An anecdote. A long time ago I showed a "move" to my father, supposed to be a killer move at the card table. He stared at me and said "and you don't cut the deck in your world?". I understood the lesson and I've never faced that again. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
There are Sharps and Flats and “Game Protection” entities. Magic falls into the latter category, for it's very nature warns the flats they can be fooled. Game Protection thus is quite a broad category, which stretches from magicians who are only out to amuse, to magicians who are not only out to amuse but also after exposing Sharps and Charlatans etcetera, up to and including Game Protection professionals.
The closer one gets to being a Game Protection professional guy the closer one would need to conform to the normal procedures of the games. Obviously the Sharps themselves need to conform the normal procedures of the games. Some Magicians of course know more about Sharp-in than they do of magic and vice versa and so on. None of which matters a jot anyway.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-22 16:07, AMcD wrote: This is what I was talking about when I said that many in this forum really have no idea what I am talking about when I am talking about gambling demo's. There is a big difference is showing a small group of interested people (other card workers - sharps - magicians etc.) some card moves and doing a gambling demo for an audience. The difference is that in a good gambling demo that is "performed" in front of an audience. In my opinion the performer has to be able to show a move - then while doing the move do it well that the audience would agree that it "would work" and they the audience watching would be fooled by this move and have a feeling that if they got into a game with the performer they would lose. That is if the magician is performing as an "expert of the card table" that is. In my opinion few magicians and few people in this forum have no idea how "hard" this kind of performance is. Because the audience is watching he performers hands up close - and they know the performer is going to do something - and they are waiting for it - and they will judge it. If they are not fooled and the move is not performed good enough - the act is blown. And the magician or performer is not the "expert" that they were told about and booked. Quote:
On 2013-08-22 16:07, AMcD wrote: Yes. But in a gambling demo performance - a display of skill is important. Because this is what can be shown to an audience - because the real work should go under the radar of the audience. Quote:
On 2013-08-22 16:07, AMcD wrote: This proves my point in my opinion. Audiences do want to be entertained - however if the performer is an expert - then the audience will expect to see an expert along with the entertainment. In my opinion.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
There is another type of demo where the audience doesn’t know the “performer” is doing a demo and he doesn’t tell them he is. In my opinion there is a lot more money in doing a demo that way – sometimes a lot more money.
Of course, it is difficult to forego the adoration and approval of being skillful with cards at the card table, but spending the money obtained by doing these “secret” demos is so much better than the adoration and approval. As tommy’s hero, SW Erdnase once wrote, “He must be content to rank with the common herd.” That is probably the most difficult things to do if one has ability with cards and is not actually a performer. And finally, MacDougall explains his method of getting someone to deal him the 13 spades in a Bridge game in Card Mastery. |
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