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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
Are these guys going to put up a demo video of this device any time soon anwhere? I mean, for $2000 I would like to see the product in action before shelling out the dough. They should have no concerns with the "secret" being discovered through a demo video if the product is as good as everyone is raving about. Anybody else feel the same way? I'm really interested in this product but at the same time 2g's is alot to blindly spend.
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jerdunn Inner circle 1735 Posts |
Yes, now that the training videos that accompany the holdout are done, it would be feasible for Bob Kohler to put up a clip or two. Maybe he doesn't think it's a good idea, or maybe he just hasn't gotten around to it.
Why not e-mail him (bobkohler@lvcm.com) and ask? Cheers, Jerry |
Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
I just shot Bob an email to ask him myself.
Here is the thing... A demo would not be very revealing other than to show an object in his hands, and now its gone or changed. From seeing both Bob's use it in person, that's really all you see. It's fun to watch though - it really looks like magic. Another issue is that he might not want to show a sampling as to not tip the routines on the DVDs. I guess so people who bought the set can use the routines to fool other magicians who are not familiar. (If trying to fool magicians is your thing). Mike Close wouldn't get into the applications in this month's Magic magazine for the same reason. At 2002 LVMI Bob showed a quicky demo routine with a little white ball. If he has that on film, that would be a good demo - its scary how that little ball appears and vanishes. |
mdspark Special user 784 Posts |
I agree with twistedace...why not put a demo clip for us to see it in action??? "the demo wouldnt be very revealing other than to show, an object in his hand and how its gone or changed" is a lame excuse in my opinion.....AND ASSUMES WE WOULD BE VIEWING THE CLIP AS A LAYPERSON!!
Antonio has an extensive clip of his "Perfect Holdout" inaction..being experienced with the Miller holdout, I found Antonios clip very informative...the same lame rationale could be used agaisnt demoing ANY trick/accessory!!! Thank God real, live magic shops don't think that way! |
Steve Hook Inner circle Raleigh, NC, USA 1266 Posts |
There probably won't be a clip posted by Bob.
Further arguing and gnashing of teeth won't change this, but I doubt my typing will truncate the discussion either........ Steve H
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Thanks for the concerts + recordings, Lowell, Richie, and Paul!
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mdspark Special user 784 Posts |
Gnashing more teeth...lol...there is A LOT to be gained...for instance, with Antonios video clip of using "The Perfect Holdout", I was able to compare the body/arm postions needed and it is a BIG contrast with the Miller holdout with I currently use.
I am currently trying to decide between the Perfect Holdout and the F/K Holdout....so a comparison of it inaction WOULD INDEED help me decide...without at least a small demo of the F/K Holdout...I am inclinded to spend $200 for something seen..rather than $1800 for something NOT SEEN inaction!! DUH!!! Call me crazy, but I am just trying to invest wisely using my own eyes and thinking for myself rather than relying on self appointed experts who can only give OPINIONS which may OR MAY NOT be the same conclusion I would draw. I guess to some, this seems unreasonable..Oh well. Oh, BTW Steve H, I don't expect MY opionion to change a darn thing on this issue...but If I want to "gnash some teeth" over it and express an opinion, I think I am allowed....LOLOL |
Paul h. Special user MINDoverMETHOD 528 Posts |
Guys,
Ive talked to Bob several times about this and he decided not to post video of the holdout. He made this decision for several reasons...mostly out of respect of those who paid for this and are now using it, like myself. You can't blame him for not wanting people picking apart his ultimate release. I know the price is high, but if you are using this, it is worth it to the pro. I can not tell you how many times Ive heard people ask for demos and have it always turn into a question and answer session for the exact mechanics and secrets behind the methods. Best, Paul h. |
Steve Hook Inner circle Raleigh, NC, USA 1266 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-12-12 08:31, bigdolladaddy wrote: The purpose of the lease arrangement is to protect YOU, THE BUYER. You DO "own" the device, you just can't sell the secret to Fox TV, for instance. This is so clearcut! Do you want Jerko the Faux Magi to sell it to Fox TV? Or do you want to purchase an expensive, state-of-the-art device, only to have a piece of junk variation show up at one of the Internet rip-off sites for $29.95? I will never understand the griping about this. It's a move to protect YOU and YOUR investment. The pros who are working on this now surely aren't griping.
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Thanks for the concerts + recordings, Lowell, Richie, and Paul!
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Hey mds,
I'd like to see a demo vid too, for the entertainment value - its fun to watch. I would think that the mechanics of the F/K holdout would be based upon the Miller design you are already familiar with. I think the key to any deceptive holdout use is proper coreography that provides "reasons" for the arms moving the way they need to. This holds true to the most rudimentry miller holdout, F/K's, or Romero's. From watching the Romero demo clip I can see that the arm movement is minimized (in that the arm does not need to bend from zero to 90 degrees), however throughout almost the entire clip he keeps his opposite arm frozen at a 45 degree bend. Then his working arm drops straight to his side and his 45 degree bent arm cocks back and forth to actuate the holdout. It is small movement, but very noticable imho. (To Romero's defense, the video clip is just a bunch of applications together in rapid succession - I doubt the focus on the demo was not deceptive coreography). A better example of motivated arm movements was the cut and restored rope part. I think with either the traditional 1:1 movement ratio or the differential ratio of the Romero unit, the performer needs to coregraph things. If done well, either can be used deceptively. I got to watch Bob Fitch for hours at LVMI 2003 mess around for magicians. He was using the holdout, but his moves are so well coreographed that it is hard to tell how and when he is stealing or vanishing objects. I remember talking with another magician who was watching it who surmised, "He is using his holdout, but I can't follow it - there are no visible 'tells'." I personally think the volumes of information written on both gentlemen's websites and the myraid of threads here provide more insight on the features/benefits of the different units than performance clips. I think the peformance clips show moreso how good or poor the performer is at using the device than the features/benefits of the devices. |
A.J. Veteran user Michigan 314 Posts |
Having invested in the F/K Holdout, I am fully and completely satisfied with the system...indeed, with it, you could literally start your own religion. Seriously though, it truly is a remarkable set of tools of the highest quality that can be applied in so many ways, including the ability to take the routines you already do to amazing new heights.
In my humble opinion, I don't think a demo video would change someone's ultimate buying decision one way or the other. This is a professional tool that will be appreciated as such for as long as you perform. If the school of hard knocks has taught me anything over the years, it is: "You get what you pay for." And that pretty much sums up the F/K holdout system...I am not in any way disapointed by the investment made here. |
korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
Whera can I see demo of perfect holdout in action?
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Steve Hook Inner circle Raleigh, NC, USA 1266 Posts |
Kort:
Sorry, I confused "perfect" with "ultimate".
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Thanks for the concerts + recordings, Lowell, Richie, and Paul!
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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
Mdspark said: "with Antonios video clip of using The Perfect Holdout"
Dan Watkins says: "From watching the Romero demo clip" So I assume that there is demo somewhere. I am not looking demo of Kohler holdout, but on Romeros |
mdspark Special user 784 Posts |
There is a demo of Antonio Romeros Perfect Holdout...go to his web site...email reqesting the video clip..he will send.
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