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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Mentalists that use stooges for everything (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Steven Keyl
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On a practical level if you are performing for groups that all know each other, like at a corporate event, then each helper for each effect is going to be a stooge and will be the only ones unknown to the rest of the audience which will certainly give the method away.

The only way this would really work is if you were well-known enough to perform in front of an audience of thousands and you could have half a dozen plants in the audience. However, you wouldn't rise to the level of respectability required to command an audience like that if you only use stooges as an up-and-comer.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

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DWRackley
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I’ve said this before, but I put confederates and electronics into the same box. Use what works, of course, but once they suspect either, that becomes the de facto explanation for everything you do. If you were unimaginative enough to actually do every effect via stoogery, well, you know, eggs in one basket and all…you’re pretty well washed out.

Steven, my very first outing as a mentalist was a collection of friends and strangers, just over twenty people. It was actually a fairly easy kick-off, as about a third were people I’d worked with as part of a stage crew. I chose one of them as a secret assistant and took HUGE pains to disguise the fact. She has kept my secret for over two years now (her boyfriend suspected, but she’s still playing cool.)

One of the things to be careful of (your mileage may vary) is she didn’t have the complete formula. She knew exactly what I needed her to do, but how I turned that into a “miracle” was something she never figured out. Not DR by any means, but still a mystery to her as well as the others.

I’ve streamlined the thing now, to the point I can hand off a single crib sheet (hides in a compact or a flip phone – I like using ladies!) I don’t use it at every show; it’s actually become kind of special. But when I do use a confederate, using Logical Disconnect, I make it all but impossible for the selection to have been anything but random.
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Shrubsole
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Well as well as getting paid, there has to be something in the act for me. Call it ego, prestige, pride or whatever you like, but if I was only doing the act for money alone, it wouldn't be very satisfying at all. I can see a need for stooges sometimes but mostly in magic and not mentalism. In magic, you sometimes have to have someone in on it or they wouldn't know what to do after getting in the box!

Of course they can be, and are used, in mentalism but I can get the same or similar effect without one and just using me! That gives a satisfaction/pride/whatever, that just getting Barry out of the audience and him saying what I told him to say, can't and doesn't provide. Also, without a stooge, there is no stooge to find out about and expose. (Not that anything will stop some thinking and saying that you use stooges as they can't work out how you did it)

So I started doing my act for me, because I wanted to do it and enjoyed performing for people and getting that feedback of amazement from them. Then people started paying me for it - Bonus!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
Eddini_81976
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I hear you Richard we are ALL Artist, and you are right rating and the like are for Sports games. I was just trying to get people to know know why you are one of my Top Favorites is all and Bob asked ... lol. Truth is as I wrote there are so many AWESOME Mentalist and shoot Magicians ... etc. out there. As far as Magicians I LOVE Bill Malone, especially his sense of Humor. I use a couple of his "One - Liners" especially the Blow - ** **ll one. As far as my Favorite TOP CARD GUY in the World my pick would be Darwin Ortiz, as he practices so much, goes through at least 300 decks a year the guy is AWESOME, and uses Great Plots. I also like David Regal, talk about a Great Creator he sure is one. Well enough on that I got my point across Smile

God Bless, Ed
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
Richard Osterlind
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This year, Bob will be awarded MindVention's Lifetime Achievement award. There is no one I would rather see get this. I keep my books arranged in what I consider to be "most important" order. On my shelf, first to follow Annemann and Corinda, are my Bob Cassidy materials. This is not because he is my good friend, which he is, but because that is where they belong.

As far as stooges, here is my final opinion. Stooges are fine, as long as that method is never EVER found out. But if you are exposed, even just once in your entire career, whether it be because someone talked or because what you did what so obviously "stooge methodology", then you can never create another miracle in your life. Because no matter what you do, no matter how impossible, whether you use a stooge or not, THAT will be the explanation.

Richard
Cervier
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The day I heard you say that, I carved it in my mind.
Thank you.
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
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Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore
mastermindreader
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Richard-

That's odd. On my bookshelf the order is Annemann, Corinda and Osterlind.

And even if no one else likes our stuff I'm comforted by the fact that we like each other's. Smile

Thanks, though. That meant a lot.

Best-

Bob
PhilDean
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Pure class.
Ba Ba Booey
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On my bookshelf, I mix up Osterlind's and Cassidy's books like a well-shuffled deck of cards. I love them all.
cafeinst
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I recall seeing a show in a college about 20 years ago in which a magician was doing a one-ahead trick that used a male college-student stooge for the last prediction. The student yelled out, "Oh my God!!!". Fake and obvious. The student ruined it.
Chris Cheong
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I disagree to some of the top comments.

No one is really a "mentalist" or "magician", we are simply actors who take up those roles. Using stooges doesn't make you less a mentalist or an actor.

I do uses stooges for:

- Mixing, going around making friends with my audiences and get certain information I need.
- My show finale ACAAN

I have been working on corporate events for the past 8 years and my stooges have been with me ever since.

If you claim to be a real mind reader then I wouldn't suggest you using stooges, it will be very embarrassing when you're exposed.
Regards,
Chris
PhilDean
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Quote:
On 2013-09-18 13:53, Chris Cheong wrote:
I disagree to some of the top comments.

No one is really a "mentalist" or "magician", we are simply actors who take up those roles. Using stooges doesn't make you less a mentalist or an actor.

I do uses stooges for:

- Mixing, going around making friends with my audiences and get certain information I need.
- My show finale ACAAN

I have been working on corporate events for the past 8 years and my stooges have been with me ever since.

If you claim to be a real mind reader then I wouldn't suggest you using stooges, it will be very embarrassing when you're exposed.


And you publish this information on a google-able internet forum? Ok...
Bard
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Quote:
No one is really a "mentalist" or "magician", we are simply actors who take up those roles.


I so hate that line. . . if this were true we'd see far more information on theater and acting than we have on card tricks. . . it's a shame. . .

When it comes to using a Stooge we must define which kind of "stooge" we're talking about; the confederate that's on payroll and somehow hidden form sight, such as that secret someone in the audience that gives you unseen cues or are we looking at the kid that was prompted just before a show as to what to do during the Guilotine act in a Magic show?

Then we come to the worst of the worst -- the Instant Stooge that's given a note that tells them to play along or some such silliness. . . one of the best ways I know to have things "exposed" and lessen your standing in people's minds when it comes to being a real "Mind Reader". . . though I believe this sort of thing is great for a Magician to use. . . the kind of performer that is known for trickery, which is not supposed to be the case when presenting Mentalism -- validation and the sense of being the real thing; be it something paranormal or scientific or psychological -- the effects presented are supposed to sustain our claims and when blatant trickery -- especially in the case of the Instant Stooge -- is being employed we've lost that validation alongside public respect.

The best way to incorporate a stooge is when they are hidden right in front of folks; Rick Maue's idea of having the stooge/confederate do some of the dirty work for you is a perfect example as to what I mean here. Those familiar with the Cezanne code may see things in a similar light.
Scott Soloff
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No stooges...

It's not necessary. You can create apparent miracles without them. Why even take the chance to muck everything up.

Best wishes,


Scott
'Curiouser and curiouser."
Bard
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Quote:
On 2013-09-22 11:20, Scott Soloff wrote:
No stooges...

It's not necessary. You can create apparent miracles without them. Why even take the chance to muck everything up.

Best wishes,

Scott


I fully support your sentiment, Scott but there are those situations when doing a big show that tossing in a confederate makes life far easier than not; I use to do a code act that required a physical helper in the audience that could send me cues as to what was being held up by people or inform me of other things. I've likewise had confederates help in other was that took the heat off of me when there was some form of dirty work needed, be it loading a prediction in a box or using a swami so as to get me one ahead on something. In other words, there are times when this technique is of true value. But, in the majority of cases you do not need any such assistance, there is far more available to us within Mentalism than any of us will ever be able to do as a solo performer.
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