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balducci
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The Lobo doth protest too much, methinks.

Quote:
On 2013-09-05 15:23, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Don't worry; I'm not a follower of Rand Paul, either.


Quote:
On 2013-09-05 15:19, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Don't worry; I'm not a follower of Rand Paul, either.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Slide
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General,

Lobo is the lawyer. I always felt confident in my bookkeeper and accountant to advise me on this and never had a problem, but he is the expert.
General_Magician
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Quote:
A word to the wise about independent contractors: Calling someone an independent contractor doesn't necessarily make that person an independent contractor. If you and someone you hire sign a contract and you both agree that s/he is an independent contractor, THAT doesn't necessarily make him or her an independent contractor, either. In California (in all of the 9th Circuit), there is a variety of factors that courts examine to make the employee/independent contractor determination (different jurisdictions vary). It's a case-by-case fact-intensive inquiry. There have been cases where everyone signs a contract and agrees that the person is an independent contractor, and the court has said, "Actually, he's an employee," and the employer has been liable for a whole slew of back taxes and related headaches. In my own humble opinion, it's most definitely NOT a waste of money to consult an attorney. And a good and prudent accountant won't offer legal advice, which he or she would be doing if he or she offered an opinion as to whether an IC relationship as opposed to an E-E relationship existed. It's certainly the case in California that that question is NOT answered by an agreement, or by a particular structure. It's a complex question that considers the type of work being done, the degree of control the "hirer" exerts over way the "hiree" completes his or her duties, and numerous other factors. I strongly doubt it's a simple question in any jurisdiction. Legal consequences may be unlikely, but if they occur, they're serious. How to treat employees vs. independent contractors is an accounting question; whether someone is an employee or a independent contractor is a legal question. If you have half a brain and you're ego isn't totally out of control...take your legal questions to legal professionals.

But what do I know...I'm just a lawyer from American Samoa.


The above is not intended as, and should not be construed as, legal advice. None of y'all is my client.


Thanks Lobo! I appreciate it! Yeah, when I initially talked about hiring people my lawyer told me she thought it would be a great idea for her to go ahead and contact the IRS and try to get these folks declared as independent contractors. So, I think it's getting to that point now where I need some more help and I probably need to go ahead and hire my attorney again to do some work for me.

Quote:
General,

Lobo is the lawyer. I always felt confident in my bookkeeper and accountant to advise me on this and never had a problem, but he is the expert.


It's either you pay the lawyers now, or pay a lot more money later! It's like I said Slide, no escape from the lawyers. They will always make their money.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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Slide
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"It's either you pay the lawyers now, or pay a lot more money later! It's like I said Slide, no escape from the lawyers. They will always make their money."

yeah, I paid my lawyers plenty, just not for this kind of stuff. I did have one employee sue me after he got fired, and that one cost me some bucks.
Slide
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"I'm just a lawyer from American Samoa. "

That's were Saul Goodman went.

Better call Saul.
General_Magician
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Quote:
yeah, I paid my lawyers plenty, just not for this kind of stuff. I did have one employee sue me after he got fired, and that one cost me some bucks.


I have Commercial General Liability Insurance. My attorney advised that she didn't think I needed Errors and Ommisions insurance. I got my business set up as an LLC. Probably have my lawyer draft a contract to where if I am sued, he or she will only be able to sue my LLC. It's how I have my performance agreement contracts set up.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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LobowolfXXX
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This is an issue that's at the forefront of my consciousness because I'm launching a partnership venture where we'd like to have work performed by independent contractors. I punted on the question, myself; we're consulting with someone who handles more of these than I do. I basically know enough to know that it's not a simple question, and the stakes are high.

It's really sort of like buying insurance. If you try to make someone an independent contractor and that person is willing to be an independent contractor, then you'll probably end up with an independent contractor relationship; however, if you're wrong, it can cost you. The problem is (in the 9th Circuit) that if you treat someone as an IC and for whatever reason, that relationship is challenged and the Court finds an employer/employee relationship, that relationship will be established retroactively. So any withholdings that should have been made for an employee can come back to bite you (though I think there are provisions for set fines in cases of good faith error where they let some of the large back sums pass). California's economy has been shaky, and there was a statutory backlash against people who were perceived to be shirking their duties as employers by calling themselves hirers-of-contractors. People might assume that signing a contract where the person agrees to IC status is enough to create an IC relationship. I shouldn't call Slide "wrong" here; it's a comfort level issue. Just be aware that it's not entirely riskless.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Al Angello
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I paid thousands of dollars to get an ex wife off my back, and the more I think about it the surer I am that it was thousands of dollars well spent.
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So you are saying we can do the same thing with Obamacare?

I agree it would be well worth it.
Danny Doyle
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Quote:
On 2013-09-05 13:19, gdw wrote:
I still cant take anyone seriously who seriously thinks anything about the AHCA will ACTUALLY result in anything "affordable."
Or rather, MORE affordable, in the long run.

gdw, we disagree more often than not, but I agree with you here. I absolutely agree with you here.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

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All but a he die hard liberals know this is not about making anything affordable. It is about an ideology.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2013-09-06 00:36, Dannydoyle wrote:
All but a he die hard liberals know this is not about making anything affordable. It is about an ideology.


Now, now. I'm sure someone, somewhere batted an eye when the original cost estimates were revised upward by over 85% three years later. Maybe.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-09-06 00:36, Dannydoyle wrote:
All but a he die hard liberals know this is not about making anything affordable. It is about an ideology.


Was it all about a "liberal ideology" when the Republican think tanks originally came up with the idea or when Mitt Romney created RomneyCare in Massachusetts? (The latter was the blueprint for Obamacare)
LobowolfXXX
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On 2013-09-06 01:06, mastermindreader wrote:
Was it all about a "liberal ideology" when the Republican think tanks originally came up with the idea or when Mitt Romney created RomneyCare in Massachusetts? (The latter was the blueprint for Obamacare)


What entity is going to subsidize the nationwide program the way the federal government subsidized the Massachusetts program to make it so successful?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Bob1Dog
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Quote:
On 2013-09-06 00:36, Dannydoyle wrote:
All but a he die hard liberals know this is not about making anything affordable. It is about an ideology.

Yup. It's about those of us who work hard all our lives and pay our taxes and will now support those who haven't and don't. Only the marxists in here will find fault with my thinking and will respond vehemently against me. Ask me if I care. And to the deflectors, forget about it. I won't allow you to taunt me. Night Night. Smile
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

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mastermindreader
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What a neat way to preempt an intelligent discussion- just say in advance that anyone who disagrees with you is a Marxist. Back to the name calling I guess.

Why the need for the name calling, Bob. You don't like it when other people do it.

For your information- I'm proud to be an American, I served this country, and I'm decidedly NOT a Marxist.
mastermindreader
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Lobo-

What about the conservative Heritage Foundation, who originally proposed the idea (as well as the individual mandate) as a national plan?
LobowolfXXX
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I don't care who proposed it; my understanding is that the Feds picked up the slack to make it work in Massachusetts. It works (apparently) because it has (had?!) outside subsidy. That seems to make it problematic (which is to say moronic) to use it as a model for a nationwide version. I say "seems to" because I haven't looked too closely at the Massachusetts version, so my understanding may be inaccurate.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
R.S.
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Why do Republicans prefer the old pre-Obamacare healthcare system? I thought they were AGAINST socialism?

http://www.policymic.com/articles/10565/......ocialism

excerpt:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prior to the Affordable Care Act the costs of uninsured free riders skipping their medical bills were socialized. Rather than going bankrupt, hospitals increase the prices for the insured. Hospitals split the losses with the government. The government then taxes you higher to socialize the losses.

For example, uninsured diabetes patients were showing up in costly hospital emergency rooms for insulin when health crises arose rather than going to cheaper primary care doctors. Many couldn't pay those bills.

Before the Affordable Care Act, the system was socialistic, and losses were distributed throughout America.

Repeal of the Affordable Care Act is a call for a return to that socialist system.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-09-06 02:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I don't care who proposed it; my understanding is that the Feds picked up the slack to make it work in Massachusetts. It works (apparently) because it has (had?!) outside subsidy. That seems to make it problematic (which is to say moronic) to use it as a model for a nationwide version. I say "seems to" because I haven't looked too closely at the Massachusetts version, so my understanding may be inaccurate.


My point is actually in response to the false characterization of the ACA as a "liberal" conception. (Or "Marxist" as others have alleged.)

Ron's article makes a good point, though. Prior to the ACA, the medical costs of the uninsured were indeed "socialized" by hospital ERs.
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