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LobowolfXXX
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This is just like television, only you can see much further.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2013-09-11 00:55, mastermindreader wrote:

You can bet that Syria would never have admitted, for the first time, that they had chemical weapons, nor would they have agreed to give them up, if it had not been for the very real threat of an American intervention.

Syria already admitted last year that it had chemical weapons:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/ju......at-assad

So I am puzzled by some of the current (U.S. based) reporting, i.e. that which makes it sound as though such an admission is new. Am I missing something?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Michael Baker
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John Cleese on Syria...

John Cleese has it about right:

"The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from "****ed Off" to "Let's get the ***s." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be alright, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is cancelled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.

-- John Cleese - British writer, actor and tall person.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
magicfish
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Quote:
On 2013-09-10 18:16, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-10 16:56, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
It seems to me so far that Syria got their sails trimmed a little bit, and Obama got his trimmed a lot.




I don't see the latter. It was fear of an American strike and Obama's intentional vagueness as to whether he'd strike anyway, regardless of Congress's vote that may well have prompted the Syrians to finally admit, for the first time, that they have chemical weapons and are willing to give them up to avoid a military intervention.

That would be a win/win situation regardless of the political attacks which will continue anyway, regardless of the actual issues.

Agreed. Seems Assad will do anything to hold on to his position. Use weapons of mass destruction so he isn't deposed, then give them so he isn't deposed. Sigh...if only Syrians could vote.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2013-09-10 19:00, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
I hadn't thought of it as a win for the President. I assumed he wanted to go to war and anything less was a loss, for his intentions. Bluffing them down to give up the gas is, indeed a win, but I hadnt thought of it as part of Obama's plan. I'd assumed his plan was to get rid of the bossman and nothing less.

If this settles down to us not warring, I'm happy. I think he sidestepped what would have been a vary unpopular choice. Who was it that popped the idea as an afterthought? Or was that a well placed carefuly planted option?


This would be like saying the Cuban Missile Crisis was a loss for Kennedy because he didn't get to bomb Cuba.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
magicfish
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Quote:
On 2013-09-11 02:48, Michael Baker wrote:
John Cleese on Syria...

John Cleese has it about right:


"The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from "****ed Off" to "Let's get the ***s." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be alright, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is cancelled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.

-- John Cleese - British writer, actor and tall person.

I read this just as Cleese would deliver it. Hilarious.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2013-09-10 22:34, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-10 21:30, landmark wrote:

Just a reminder: Israel and the US have not agreed to an international chemical weapons ban.

Are you talking about this:

"The Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling, and use of chemical weapons and their precursors. Its full name is the Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and Use of Chemical Weapons and on their Destruction. The agreement is administered by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), which is an independent organization based in the Hague, in the Netherlands."

The U.S. did sign it. So has Israel. Israel, however, has not yet ratified it.

You can see a list of nations that have ratified the treaty here:

http://www.opcw.org/about-opcw/member-states

The U.S. is indeed on the list as having signed and ratified it.

So are you maybe thinking of the treaty against land mines? The U.S. is not a party to it. Or the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (which I think Israel has not signed). Or something else?

Thanks balducci, my mistake, I was wrong about the particulars--the US has signed it, although Israel (and Egypt), perhaps Syria's most powerful enemy in the region, has not ratified it.

Though the US has signed and ratified the convention we know now, thanks to Wikileaks--thank you for your service, Julian Assange--that the US had chemical weapons in Iraq, violating the convention.

"In the weeks prior to the March 19, 2003 commencement of the Iraq war, the United States received a widely reported rebuke from its primary coalition partner, the United Kingdom, over statements by the then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld suggesting that the US would use CS gas for "flush out" operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Subsequently Washington has been quiet about whether it has deployed CS gas and other chemical weapons or not. [2]

The use of chemical weapons such as CS gas for military operations is illegal. The Chemical Weapons Convention of 1997, drafted by the United Kingdom and ratified by the United States, declares “Each State Party undertakes not to use riot control agents as a method of warfare”. Permissible uses are restricted to "law enforcement including domestic riot control."

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/US_violates_ch......nvention

I point this out not to say "Look how horrible the US is," but to back up my claim that the US's moral authority in this area is not very credible.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-09-11 01:05, Bob1Dog wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-10 18:16, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-10 16:56, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
It seems to me so far that Syria got their sails trimmed a little bit, and Obama got his trimmed a lot.




It was fear of an American strike and Obama's intentional vagueness as to whether he'd strike anyway
That would be a win/win situation regardless of the political attacks which will continue anyway, regardless of the actual issues.

Obama's intentional vagueness? Surely you jest.


I guess you didn't hear Kerry's and the President's press conference in which they were pointedly asked if Syria would be struck EVEN WITHOUT Congressional approval. They did not give a clear answer that question.

Sounds pretty clearly like intentional vagueness to me.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2013-09-11 01:12, LobowolfXXX wrote:
This is just like television, only you can see much further.


Very nice! Is it yours?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
critter
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What's going on??????


The eternal question...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xYGuheq1TM
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2013-09-11 14:41, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-11 01:05, Bob1Dog wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-10 18:16, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-09-10 16:56, Tom Jorgenson wrote:
It seems to me so far that Syria got their sails trimmed a little bit, and Obama got his trimmed a lot.




It was fear of an American strike and Obama's intentional vagueness as to whether he'd strike anyway
That would be a win/win situation regardless of the political attacks which will continue anyway, regardless of the actual issues.

Obama's intentional vagueness? Surely you jest.


I guess you didn't hear Kerry's and the President's press conference in which they were pointedly asked if Syria would be struck EVEN WITHOUT Congressional approval. They did not give a clear answer that question.

Sounds pretty clearly like intentional vagueness to me.


If intentional vagueness keeps us out of a war, it is good by me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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Me, too, Danny. I think it was clear to the Syrians that the President would have a hard time getting clear Congressional approval. By not acknowledging whether or not he would act regardless of the outcome in Congress, Assad couldn't be sure what would happen.

Now it is likely that Congress will pass a resolution authorizing military intevention if Assad does not comply by turning over his chemical weapons for destruction. Or if he should use them again.

We're watching an interesting game of chess.
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