Lets see if I can get my thought across....

It seems to me that the first magic that we learn might be the best. When we first start learning magic we look at it like a layman, so everything is new. So we might have a better sense of what is powerful. As we go through our magic lives we loose that awe, that moment of surprise; we become jaded, so how we view magic is different. We start putting in our own ideas of what it should be. We start looking at it like magicians. Magicians look at magic differently...they may think that an ambitious routine with a bunch of difficult moves is better magic, they judge. The card comes to the top...how difficult can we make that happen...and if its not difficult then its not as good. KOZMO RAMBLES.....in my eyes cards coming to the top isn't magic at all, but that's my view. I had a conversation with Doug Conn one night not too long ago, and I told him that I wished that I would have been growing up in an area where there were more magicians. He told me I was lucky to not have those influences because magicians think like magicians. If we could only go back in time to the first day we saw magic and could look at what we are doing now, what a lesson we might learn....

One of the very first card tricks I learned was Red Hot Mama. Man that guy showed me a million card tricks: cards coming to the top, all of that--but Red Hot Mama--the card changed colors...now that was magic to me. It changed places....WOW! Young wipper snapper that I was, I still do my version of that trick on the streets, when I do corporate stuff And it kills...at least my version does. I think we often look at magic so much differently as we go through this process. If we could just look at it the way a lay audience does I think we could learn a lot. What looks like real magic to us and what looks like real magic to a lay audience might be completely different....

I'm not sure I got my point across in this ramble but as people respond maybe I can put it a little better. The point is not that we make things more difficult for no real good reason although we often do, but that we look at what's magical differently than maybe our audience. Simple to the point, what do they remember? What does this look like in those lay eyes? I don't know what this post is really about but I love to ramble on. Someday I may learn how to put something down on paper and have it make sense....

koz

No I think you're being clear. Let me see if I'm getting you.

This morning I spent almost forty minutes blowing a seven year old's mind just doing french drops and pulling coins out of his ears, nose, mouth, elbow, etc. Simple effect right? Probably one of the first "sleights" I learned 'cause it blew me away when I was this kid's age.

But over time I just stopped doing it. I wouldn't have this morning but I didn't have anything on me but some change. It was a huge lesson to me.

Am I on the right track? Sometimes the simple things that we take for granted can be very powerful.

Mark

I think I know where your at.Ken Brooke said everything goes in circles, what goes around comes around.All the magicians that I know who have over twenty years working under their belt seem to end up the same. The tricks they started off with were the classics, rings,cups&balls, c&r rope etc,,,,then came the experimentation years (You know, the time when the dealers make most of their money out of us) So we try everything new thinking its the greatest etc, etc, our cupboards and roof space gradualy getting filled up with more and more unusable props. Then like a bolt from the blue we find out that those classics, those tricks we learnt oh so long ago, have as much impact as any of the latest and greatest on offer. So back to basics we have gone the circle. Guess its the learning curve of our art, or maybe throughout all of this we have become profficient at what we present, profficientcy that could not have been achieved without making this journey !! I have used and forgotten more finger flicking moves than I have had hot meals, being slow its taken all this time and cash to work out that the method no matter how clever takes third place to the entertainment content and presentation. I think someone once said that they spent all of their time trying to conceal their own skill, attempting to make every move look natural !! Or as Ken used to say "Keep it simple" Its taken me a long time to figure that out.

It made sense.

Maybe it is difficult to respond to this.

I still use Chicago Opener, which is Frank Garcia's rehash of the Red Hot Mama as the first part of my three-part opening sequence when I do card work.

It is high impact and direct. The plot makes sense. You really can't beat magic like that.

Jerry Andrus developed most of his magic before he met very many magicians. That's why it is different.

One of the problems with the Internet is that it is making the WWW into a big magic club. People are doing tricks now that I have never heard of. Maybe it's because I don't go to club meetings and I try to avoid OPM now.

But magicians need to develop several things in order to be effective.

One is natural movement.

Another is the ability to be yourself.

But maybe the most important is the ability to see yourself from the audience's perspective.

And I think that is one of the points you are making here.

Of course it makes sense. I just wished that some one would have stopped me early at that point and said that I should stop and look around a bit and remember
everything, then see as many different shows as you possibly can before going on.

I think that it takes time to realize that it might not have just been the magic trick that entertained the audience. The experimentation phase that we grow through helps us realize and develop what it really is that provides enjoyment to the audience. As I have so few shows under my belt, I am just beginning to learn what it means to entertain. Many of the posters on this board are doing us a great service posting to threads like this one.

Thanx,

Mike

Magic is best when its looked at through the eyes of a child.....before their parents have a really big influence on them...before they become jaded....when they still beleive oin santa clause....and for us....as magicians....no matter when we decided we wanted to do this...the early stages of being a magician...when someone could still fool me...that moment of astonishment....magic was different....we put so many ideas to work.....of course being technically sound is important and that happens only with time and performance...but the magic when I was just beginning...the classics...although it doesn't have to be classics were the first stuff I saw...and it was magic....we throw so much stuff in there now....we spend all of our time soemtimes making a reason for why we just made some movement....because we think like magicians...instead of thinking like a lay man.....and its just not important....what does it look like is whats important.....i wish I could go back there...to that place when I was a kid...and I saw the cups and balls..and MAN!...how did he do that....

cellini often uses this intro to his ring routine...

when I was a kid I remember 2 magicians...one was a man...i was 7, and I don't even remember his name...but that coin , it just vanished...right before my eyes...and I remember him becuase he was magic.,...it happened, right before my eyes...the seciond was my teacher, Slydini...and this is my tribute to him...

hes saying in his eyes that first magician was so important in his development because when he beccame a magician he wanted his magic to look like that....what a lesson....did you see the art of street performing?...the little boy....black and white to color...thats a lesson...HUGE lesson....through the eyes of a child...well I often say when I start a show and I'm building an audience..." its my job to make adults understand that magic is not just for children and that its my job to make feel like a kid for just a moment...to forget about the cares of their life....

and that's what I try to do....but now....being in new orleans...its changed for me....working the streets where ever it is...becuse its more about being funny...doing great magic but more imprtant....making them laugh and making them pay....

koz

I guess it's different for everyone when it comes to a layman's perspective.

When I was a layman and knew virtually nothing about the workings of any magic tricks, David Blaine seemed like a god to me.

The tricks that he did that simply blew me away were his ambitious card routine (which I referred to as his froot loops trick, because I had no clue what ambitious card was) and the 2 card monte trick.

These two tricks really amazed me, especially that last phase of the routine where it appeared as if froot loops' bent card jumped visisbly to the top of the deck.

Oh and also just from talking to friends(not magicians) most people are almost always blown away by the bitten quarter when Blaine does it.

Of course from a magician's perspective this trick causes many magicians to moan and groan, but the fact is that people are literally disturbed by this when they see him do it on t.v.

I myself have a great distaste for hanging out with magicians at all. I have one good friend who is also a magician, and we use each other for creative input. But for the most part that's it.

I visit the magic shops occasionally, but I always laugh after I've left when I think back on the warped perspective many magicians have on the art that they study.

I see far too many "accomplished" magicians who know probably hundreds of sleights, but unfortunately are not very proficient at any of them.

Also as far as I can tell most of them have no interest in how things play in the real world, but in how much technical skill it requires.

But ultimately it is silly to judge an effect by the skill level it requires because this should be nonexistent from the perspective of your audience.

If you can employ great skill in your routines and still entertain your audience then that is wonderful. But I think you ultimately you have to ask yourself whether it is truly necessary for every trick you do.

One of the things I always try to do is maintain a safe distance from the herd mentality of the magic community. It seems far too easy to become more interested in practicing alone with a mirror then taking your art into the world and amazing people.

Seems you got it. Simple is great, and those tricks that Blaine did on that first special, well it's pretty good magic because in the lay person's eye that's amazing--and that's the whole thing--those things he did are really classics aren't they? Pen through coin, the card stuff.... It's good stuff--in the laymen's eyes--I too never visit the magic shop nor do I hang with magi--except for here--because we get a twisted view of what's really magic. I spent 2 years learning Gary Kurtz's flourious and never use it. Who cares? In my eyes it's great stuff becuase of the skill, but 2 sponge balls appearing in the layman's hand is much more powerful. So when those magic store, sleight of hand magis come and judge you or me or anyone else, and they judge us poorly because the skill level that it takes to do our stuff is too low, well it just proves that they don't understand....

koz

Always enjoy hearing what Kozmo has to say...

Ten years later it's still a good read.

WOW.....that was a long time ago....

You haven't aged a bit. Well... maybe a bit.

Yea at least a little bit....im old as dirt

As a six year old in the late '30s, I saw Stanley the Magician (the late Stanley Susan)do a school show. Stanley changed my life!!! I decided then and there, what I was going to "be"!

It took a few years to get started, and the ONLY magicians I saw (I lived in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan--far from the big cities)were school assembly magicians! (Harold Sterling, Stuart Ross, C. Thomas Magrum, Roy Mayer, and Loring Campbell, and the circus and carnival sideshow magicians, most of them used the "name" on the banner out front, ("Presto" or similar)but I do remember George "Red" Friend, "Buzz" Worth, Charlie Fretz,and "Roxy". None of them were "finger flingers", but ALL of them were magicians who had learned that "magic is not inherently entertaining"!

Each taught me (directly or indirectly) how to be an entertainer with magic. In some cases, it took me awhile to understand and put the knowledge and experience that they shared, to work, but the seeds they planted, finally germinated!

As working entertainers, they had learned that "keeping it simple, and making it fun" were the keys to "making it". I watched them, listened, and learned!

As a late teenager, (and very early '20s) I did go through a relatively brief period of eagerly learning as many sleights as I could, but as I matured and realized that "the effect is more important than the method", I soon "morphed" into a performer whose sole interest was in entertaining.

BTW--I saw Kozmo busking in Jackson Square about ten or twelve years ago. He "done good"! We didn't really get acquainted! Well, he was working, abd I learned early that visiting was fine, but a visitor should never stand in front or the tidket box! So, I said, "See you down the road!"

Bill Palmer (above in this thread) share many basic concepts! One is a part of every lecture that I've done since I started lecturihg. Bill says (above) that "seeing yourself from the audience's perspective" is something that every magician needs to develop. I call it "How does it look?".

One other thought to interject that may contribute to this thread: "WHEN YOU ARE THROUGH LEARNING, YOU ARE THROUGH! ("...A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or taste not the Pyrgeab Spring. There, shalllow draughts intoxicate the brain, while drinking largely, sobers us again." --Alexander Pope

Good magicians never lose the ability to see things from a layman's perspective.

I have a different perspective. I was never interested in magic as a kid. I did not learn my my first sleight until the age of 44, which was a retention vanish. I needed to learn magic as a matter of necessity for a children's stage show and I needed to step it up quick. A sponge ball routine fit the bill.

For me I love watching experienced magicians perform, especially when I know what they are doing and how they are doing it. It is like watching ballet or any other art form that takes skill and practice.

I will never be as good as someone who started as a teen. I will never be a Jeff McBride, who amazes me because of his passion and love for magic. I can say at 51 I love magic and performing it.

I am still at the keeping it simple stage lol. Simple is good. If I need to take the long road or to the short road to the desired destination....short is good. I am blessed with a beginners mind. The funny thing I have noticed about performing is that
I sometimes think to myself, "don't these people see what I am doing? It is so obvious?" Where as spectators will be , "How did he do that?

I experienced that sense of wonder Kosmo spoke of just this weekend. I am a clown/magician and was hired to do walk around for a store opening street fair in Brooklyn. It was a long day for me. Three hours on, hour break and three more hours. I kept it simple for the walk around, Sponge Balls, Thumb Tip with scarves, Coins across, Professors Nightmare. It was a street show under the guise of walk around. All day kids where shouting how I did what I did. "I know how you did that"

On my way home I am at the train station waiting for the A and I see this kid staring at me because of my makeup. I am tired and wiped but love kids and one more chance to practice. The kid is beaming when I do the sponge balls. A crowd of about 10 gather as I rotate through my routines...I finish the Professors Nightmare as our train rolls in.

The kids name was Justin and he had that look of "WoW" as he exchanged glances with his MoM. Priceless!!

I'm glad imgic resurfaced this thread. Kozmo commented that his original post was "a long time ago," but the message (hanging onto the sense of wonder while gaining the experience to do your job well) is timeless. Don't believe me? Here's someone else who wrote pretty much the same thing a little over a hundred years ago:

http://web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/ph......wain.pdf