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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
In the end if you get what you ask for it is not the agents to bid you up. Bottom line is know your value.
If you say you want $2,000 or if the agent offers it and you take it then that is your deal. No different than if you dealt with that customer yourself and they offered you $2,000 but would have paid $7,000. Did they screw you? Having the perception of an agent often automatically ups the price. Often they simply get a better price because this is what they do. Quite often unfortunately they are dirt bags so that does not help my point. But once you reach a certain level most of the scam artists are gone and you figure out how to spot them pretty easily. My point is it is your job to educate yourself, not their job to teach you. If they can keep you working for the fee you ask for then everyone is happy. Or should be I guess. Sometimes they are the only way in. There are lots of circumstances involved. Each case is different. But I always thought if I get what I sign for then all is good.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
When an agent approaches me with a job offer my first question to him or her is "how much are they prepared to pay?". After that I ask them all the other questions one at a time.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
It is not about you calling the shots. It is about a mutual agreement between 2 businesses. If you do not treat your business as a business and get them to see that, then you will be treated no more then a product they can use and throw away. I am not saying make crazy demands or be mean about it. I am saying that you act as a professional and you smile and you go over things with them as much as they go over things with you.
As I stated it is a two way street. They need to feel comfortable with you and you must feel comfortable with them. the only way you can do this is by asking questions and asking the right questions. When I do this you will be amazed at how differently I am treated. Many agencies actually totally respect me more and see more value in me by me coming to the table with the right questions and solutions that is a win-win situation for us both. If one only allows an agency to handle everything and without any guidelines or without any questions or agreement up front, then one is foolish. We work a business and agencies that do well and that I want to work with, also know I run a business and so my asking them questions and my going over things with them in detail is not only appreciated, but they actually expect it. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I don't see why everything is a measuring contest. That is where so many guys just miss the boat, and probably a lot of work.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
It shouldn't be a measuring contest. It should be a smart transaction between two businesses who agree up front on the terms.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
I work with two agencies; both give me business cards with my name and photo and their address and phone number.
I'm on the same page as Minpro, if I receive my rate, I don't care how much the agency will make, they have a overhead also and a family to care for. I don't reveal my contact information or give out anything with my contact information on it during me appearance. To answer your question Al, nothing prevents them from finding you; the question should be, is it ethical to book the show if you know it was the result of an agency performance... My answer is, it's not ethical and I would refer the client to the agent and hold the date open as a courtesy to the agency |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
One thing to point out is that an agent or agancy should at least be open and honest and let you know the rough estimate of the value the cleint is paying for the event. I personally do not mind what the agency makes off me as long as I get my quoted fee. However, I do need to have a general idea of the overall value the client is paying for everything. the reason is simple. Imagine you think you are doing a show for say $200. Your $200 show consists of certain things you do etc. However the client is actually paying say $500. so what you have is you thinking you are doing a $200 show when in reality the client is wanting and expecting a $500 one. Now one would say the cagent should be up front in regards to the needs the client wants and the solutions provided. well they should, but that does not always happen. Bottom line, I try and show respect to the egents to gain respect back and build a relationship built on trust.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So the agency needs to go through their business model with you to justify what they are making?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-14 09:15, magic4u02 wrote: Kyle - the problem with this example is that you are basing your show fee on content. The client would be expecting $500 worth of entertainment, not better tricks. That is a problem when you sell by time or content. A comedian doesn't tell better jokes for more money - a singer doesn't sing more popular songs when paid more. Content based pricing holds many variety artists back. |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
At my age I do not work for or with agents anymore. I have had to many bad experiences with agents. Often they don't make worth my time or worth the money.
I book my shows and give out business cards if people want them - and leave a stack with the host or whoever booked me. Don't get me on my soapbox about agents - it has made my life less stressed that I just don't deal with them.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Doesn't sound like you may be an agent-friendly act if a soapbox is needed (or you've just dealt with some poor agencies).
I, for one would like to hear more about your soapbox perspectives. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
OH lord no don't start him. PLEASE.
Quote:
On 2013-12-16 12:37, tacrowl wrote: Thank you Tom. So many just don't see it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-16 18:09, Mindpro wrote: Just for your own info. I have four successful shows. I perform a full evening magic show with illusions. I perform a comedy stage hypnotic show. I perform a show where I do magic and illusions in the first half and in the second half I do comedy hypnotism. Then I also do formal close up shows and walk around at privet parties. And I do a few birthday parties. These shows have had thirty years of success and I have had over thirty years of success as a working performer. All of these shows could make any agent money. But my choice is that I book myself as a "show owner". I own my show business world. I mail out my own advertising. I do not advertise on in the yellow pages or on craig's list. I mail and have a web site.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
So you prefer being a self-represented artist. That's great. In actuality that's where the true money and opportunity is. No one can rep you or have a more true interest and desire in your success, more or better than yourself.
The problem is many entertainers do not know how to do this properly. They do not have a business system in place and think all they have to do is some marketing and the phone will begin to ring. Most do not put the proper importance and emphasis on this side of their business. Unfortunately, they also have a misperception of agents and agencies, falsely believing that all they have to do is get an agent ad they will get bookings for them. |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
I just wrote up a few things in a new thread I started here mindpro... You might find it amusing.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=44&0 Posted: Dec 17, 2013 11:27am I see it as making my own opportunities and my own success as to hanging out by the phone waiting for it to ring and maybe getting a call for a show.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Thank you Tom,
My point was that of perception. The client has a perception of what is worth in their mind $500 vs. $200. That is a very strong thing. If I do not know what the (rough) total is, it can be a very awkward situation. The agency needs to be upfront and honest with me to ensure that the show package I am offering is indeed what the client wants and expects. I will always give 100% quality performance no matter what. I will never cut corners. However, a dishonest agent can cause issues if they state I am to do one show package when in reality the client thinks they are getting something else. It just means open lines of communication between you and the agent or agency you are working for is all. Just building that relationship so things are stated and agreed upon in advance. Hope this is more clear,. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
So what do you do if you perform two shows, the $500.00 show has a saw a woman in half illusion, a chair suspension and Hospitality, and the $200.00 show has tricks like the Shrinking and Growing Head Illusion, a stiff rope and card tricks, if you receive the $200.00 fee, are you expected to perform the $500.00 show because that's what the agency charged?
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
When asked if I would work for an agent - my answer is most often - if the money is right.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-11-16 16:37, Mindpro wrote: You remind me of Geoff Ronning. In 2003 at Dave Dee's bootcamp marketing conference Geoff was speaking similar words. He was embarrassed because most of the magicians were against his speech on agents. Dave said "We beat him up." "We grilled him." |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I would have been embarrassed being at the boot camp.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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