DJ:
My friend. You have the wrong idea here and your going off on tangents. Relax. We are not trying to get you upset or anything. Trust me that is not my intention. Wew are only stating an opinion based on knowledge of the magic scene these days. That is all.

You analogy of Lance Burton I can understand. However, Lance Burton uses cigs like once or tweice in his act for a split second. He does not do an entire act themed on smoking. Also, Lance is NOT 17 years old and he also has his own theater in a casino. He more or less can control what he does in that vanue. If you to go a venue to perform your cig act, I can assure you you will run into a lot more problems with strict security and fire codes.

Xia:
If you want to do a cig move or trick for your friends in a setting that allows cig smoking, then fine. That is one thing. BUT, if your hoping to do an entire act around smoking cigs and plan on performing this for shows in your area, then that is an entirely different situation all together.

Thanks Randy:
That is why I am stating what I am stating. I would hate to see DJ spend so much time perfecting an act and not being able to perform the act where and when he wants to.

I even talked with Mullica a few years back and he said he had to give up his act for numerous reasons but one of the biggest was that he was finding it hard to get the permissions and the paperwork to be able to perform his act. It became more problems then it was worth.

Kyle

If the King of Cigs Mullica can't have the rules bent for his act, what chance does anyone stand. Mullica sure has an amazing act. Until WGM, I had never seen his cig act. I simply couldn't believe what I was seeing. But again, it sure is a shame he found resistance along the way as to where and when the act could be performed. I had no idea.

Yeah he said it was that as well as other reasons. But he also said that the changes in attitudes towards smoking also changed as well.

Hi, I don't plan on doing an entire act on cig manipulation it will just be a part of it along with cards, Billiard balls,Umbrella's so I wont be doing a whole themed on smoking I will simply do a minute of it or so. Every show I do during the intermission a whole group of people go out side for a fag normally they take there children so what I am trying to say is People still smoke a lot of people, Normally in front of there kids so there parents are going to be the reason they start if anything and really we all under estimate kids they are not all that stupid. Tom Mullica used to swallow cigs that's entirely different to what I want to do he could have choked or something on those cigs. I wont be using real cigs I can buy like 100 fake ones so I really don't see how it is that bad.

Regards
Luke

I do a lot of sleight-of-hand magic but I don't do the fancy manipulative type of stuff. I have a lot of respect for those who can do it. I just don't have the patience or the capacity.

That being said, this might just be a foolish, off-the-wall idea. In fact the probablility is it has already been done, but here goes.

I envision a golfer. Not today's type, but the old fashioned kind ( ala W.C. Fields) with the beret, poofy pants etc. One could combine golfball manipulation and later when looking for a pencil to write down his score, produce a myriad of those 3 inch pencils using standard cigarette moves.

You could even do cards (disguised as score cards of course), dancing gold club? Seems like a complete manipulative act without the over done trappings of the tuxedo. You know, the stuffy stuff. Anyway I'd like your thoughts.

Now I will crawl back to my close-up pad and my kids shows.

Frank

Frank:
Great idea, only problem is that it has been done before almost exactly as you described. I saw it done at the stage contest this past year at SAM Nationals. It was a very clever and great act idea.

What I liked about it and your idea as well, is the fact that the magician has taken the time to learn the basics for various standard and classic manipulation, but has changed it and themed it around differently.

The moves are exactly the same, but the change in theme adds entertainment valaue and makes it more appealing.

Kyle

Wow Kyle,

That is truly scary! Not the idea that I came up with the exact same thing as someone else, that happens all the time. After all there are far more heads in the world than new ideas.

The scary thing is that if I can assume the young contestant is somewhere in his mid 20's, and I am in my mid 50's, that means that it took 30 years of magician after magician doing manipulative acts the same as those before them, before someone did something inovative.

THAT is scary.

Frank

Frank:
Actually the gentlemen who did the act and competed with it was more middle aged. He was certainly not in his twenties. He just did a very nice golf themed act and did it in the old style as you mentioned. It was very creative and proved how a manipulation act can be done differently.

Kyle

Statistically cigarettes are not on the way out and a lot of the tobacco companies are good companies to invest in, but this is a magic forum not an investment forum so here is my opinion from a magic perspective. Any magician should know a little cigarette magic because it is so effective in a close-up set up. Yet in that lies the reason why you shouldn’t spend hours working on a cigarette routine. Magic, like everything else, evolves and you can substitute with enough practice anything for a cigarette. I work in Taiwan and I replace cigarettes with chopsticks. They are bigger and the effect is better.

Grow magic don't stagnate it by arguing whether cigarettes are in or out, the fact is they are old! I have done a broken and restored cigarette routine with White board markers at the school I teach and with some ink and practice the effect blew the audience away. White Board markers are more visible and colorful than cigarettes and you should allow yourself to move on and grow by becoming unique.
Enough for now

Exactly my point. Learn and study the moves and methods of cig manipulation but allow yourself to adapt to your situations and use other objects that your cig moves can be used on. It essentially is the same exact moves but now your changing it to other objects and brodening your learning curve as well as the entertainment value your giving to the audience. It also gives you many more options.

Kyle

Use the moves to end off a color changing knives routine with the final 'normal' knife. Another good way to maybe ditch the knife altogether..

Speaking of cigarette manipulation, does anyone use Ron Jaxon's Outsmokin'? And, if you do, how does it fit into your routine?

I'm not really a manipulator; just curious about this trick. I could see lots of potential for it in the manipulator's realm: multiplying cigarettes where all the ends keep swapping around all over the place.

Can you describe the effect silverfire9?

Here's the description taken from Ron's site:



The routine ends with the filter not only back on the cigarette, but in the middle, not on either end. If you so desire, here's a link to a video of Ron performing it (short video, no sound): http://www.jaxonmagic.com/outsmokin.ram .

I heard that Lance Burton does a full Cigarette manipulation routine in his Vegas act. This was several years ago.

If you would put all the same rules on the entertainer as the audience, then why don't you pay your admission to your on show?

I do multiplying Martini's in my show; I do not worry if someone is against drinking. They all enjoy the effect.

Point, do cigarette magic if you enjoy. I use to do Cigarette thru Quarter. I cannot perform this close up trick today because of smoking ban everywhere. I would not consider doing it any other way. A pencil is not a burning, live, dangerous fire. If you had seen the late Don Alan do this effect you would not believe the response from smokers and non-smokers alike.

When at a convention, Tom Mullica performed his last cigarette act. A young lady sitting behind me said she would not like anything to do with cigarettes. Yet, she laughed the loudest and clapped.

To include a small segment would not hurt anything. If not then consider, Cards are evil gambling devices, as are dice, pool cue balls.

See, anything can be made to be bad. Do you really want everyone controlling what you do?

Bill

I wish I could have delivered it like that. Like he said, you can't please everyone. Of course some might think smoking is wrong for your body but it is not affecting them in a big theater. A good quote here is;

"When people are talking about you, you are ok, it is when people aren't that you have a problem."

DJ

I hear that Europe is still ok with cigs, more then ok, everyone smokes more or less.
I advise against Encyclopedia of Cigarette Tricks by Keith Clark. I will actually pay you if you come over and get this thing out of my house.

"Now You See it Now You Don't" has a few nice things on cigs.

David Stone has a cig routine on DVD called Quit Smoking. I was EXTREMELY excited when I got it because at the time I was a smoker. I started to practice it and THEN............ I quit smoking. Been smoke free ever since May. What a waste.

USA'
I advise Keith Clark's book because it has every sleight done with cigarette's anyone has thought of. Like any manipulation routine, you need the basics before you can develope a "personnal routine" that is not a copy of someone else's.

I don't learn well from video because it is very time consuming and difficult to keep checking to see if you are doing it correctly.

Secondly, books let you interpert it your way. I once performed Paul Harris Vanishing Deck. I seen Paul at a lecture. He did it totally differently, so I showed him my handling. He later published another version with my handling in a book.

I write this as an example of how the written work can create a new method without you knowing it.

There are small "out of print" books also, like LLoyd's, but I was only suggesting.

Bill

If you can get hold of a book with some "Bar or Pub" tricks, if I can call them that, and some practical jokes or prank books, they have some neat ideas on how to rig cigarettes that you could adjust and use in your routine. I don't have the books anymore but I will try to get the names of the books I used and PM them to you.