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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Is cheating a casino wrong? (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Pop Haydn
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They will not play with anyone who plays well. How fair is that? If they let you play in a casino, it is because they think you are a sucker and can't play very well. If you start playing well, they won't take your action. Ask Ben Affleck.
tommy
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It is fair enough. A bet is an agreement. One can't be forced to agree. Its not always because they think you are not sucker they they refuse to take bets. It is more often down to a large amounts idiots want to bet. Never make a one horse book.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pop Haydn
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Fair enough, tommy. For once you've changed my mind.
tommy
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Well, I am, without doubt, the greatest in history, so I can change your mind whenever I want to and you, my boy, will not even know that I have done it. Sepin when I want you to.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pop Haydn
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Power goes to your head rather quickly...
tommy
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Smile

If the inner and outer worlds and our apparent ability to control either one with the other is the very definition of magic and sorcery and if power is the ability to influence or control the behaviour of people then where does such power reside, in the head or in things? Let us say it resides in things and ask does the casino use this sorcery? Well of course they do. All the things in the casino are all very carefully designed to wield their power over the minds of the people to causes them to bet despite the fact the odds are not fair. Consider Roulette the "King of Casino Games". The game of roulette has one of the highest house edges and yet most popular. Why do you think that is?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 19, 2014, Pop Haydn wrote:
Power goes to your head rather quickly...

Seems as if it took one post!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tomsk192
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Quote:
On May 20, 2014, tommy wrote:
[...] Consider Roulette the "King of Casino Games". The game of roulette has one of the highest house edges and yet most popular. Why do you think that is?


Cuz it so purty.
SatanicBurrito
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I worked in the Atlantic City casinos. One night there is a big commotion in the pits. I ask a VP friend I knew what was happening. A wealthy fellow negotiated a private Baccarat table with no limit stakes. He had a giant bankroll like 5 million or something ridiculous. He was up $500,000. The VP said something to the effect "the little %#&^%#@ is doing Martingale."

The Martingale system is you bet X, if you lose, you bet 2x, if you lose, you bet 4x, 8x, 16x etc. etc. until you win. Then you go back to betting x. On a no limit table with an unlimited bankroll, you theoretically can't lose. In a fair world, negotiate a no limit table and you can print money.

I said what are you going to do? The VP smiled and said "we'll send in a few different dealers to throw him off and slow him down. Then we'll wait and handle it."

This goes on for hours. The player has a huge crowd watching. Executives sweating bullets all day.

Then... the player hits a cold streak. Martingale works in theory, but it does allow for an exponential loss. The player skids down to a $750,000 hole. He's about to place that $750,000 break-even bet when he gets a tap on his shoulder. "Excuse me Mr. So and So. We're going to have to ask you to leave the table - we think you may have a gambling problem."

And with that - it was over. Of course the guy went ballistic, but they ushered him away, thank you very much.

Don't forget for a second: when you're in the casino, you're in their house. And your job is to lose money. You have no rights to gamble anywhere, and the casino management can send you home and keep you out just because they feel like it. They watch everything, and if you start taking home amounts of money that matter to them they will catch you and end it. Card count all you want if you lose.

As for real cheating - stealing and colluding - all I know is the last place in the world I would want to be caught cheating is a casino!
darksage
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A lot of the posts on this thread are way over the top. Cheating a casino is no different than cheating the government on your taxes or padding you expense account; it is morally wrong. If you can live with it, it really says a lot about who you are...
brehaut
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, SatanicBurrito wrote:
I worked in the Atlantic City casinos. One night there is a big commotion in the pits. I ask a VP friend I knew what was happening. A wealthy fellow negotiated a private Baccarat table with no limit stakes. He had a giant bankroll like 5 million or something ridiculous. He was up $500,000. The VP said something to the effect "the little %#&^%#@ is doing Martingale."

The Martingale system is you bet X, if you lose, you bet 2x, if you lose, you bet 4x, 8x, 16x etc. etc. until you win. Then you go back to betting x. On a no limit table with an unlimited bankroll, you theoretically can't lose. In a fair world, negotiate a no limit table and you can print money.

I said what are you going to do? The VP smiled and said "we'll send in a few different dealers to throw him off and slow him down. Then we'll wait and handle it."

This goes on for hours. The player has a huge crowd watching. Executives sweating bullets all day.

Then... the player hits a cold streak. Martingale works in theory, but it does allow for an exponential loss. The player skids down to a $750,000 hole. He's about to place that $750,000 break-even bet when he gets a tap on his shoulder. "Excuse me Mr. So and So. We're going to have to ask you to leave the table - we think you may have a gambling problem."

And with that - it was over. Of course the guy went ballistic, but they ushered him away, thank you very much.

Don't forget for a second: when you're in the casino, you're in their house. And your job is to lose money. You have no rights to gamble anywhere, and the casino management can send you home and keep you out just because they feel like it. They watch everything, and if you start taking home amounts of money that matter to them they will catch you and end it. Card count all you want if you lose.

As for real cheating - stealing and colluding - all I know is the last place in the world I would want to be caught cheating is a casino!


This story really helps explain why I posted this thread. No---Cheating is wrong in normal life. Casinos are not normal life. They will do anything to get your money. The story described above is cheating. They changed the rules in the middle of the game---changing the preset rules is cheating. So my question is if they are cheating, can you? I was naive about casinos. Once I became an advantage player I saw their true colors. We agree to a line of credit and instantly the rules are changed. The rules of comps are changed. How much I can bet is changed. And when they saw that I was a winning player, I was barred. So all of you who act high and mighty and saying cheating is wrong no matter what, please look at this more closely. For instance, what is cheating---casinos feel like card counting is either cheating or close to it and bar you. But all you are doing is playing smart. Is it cheating when they over pay you? If it is, is it cheating when they underpay you and don't correct the mistake?

Casinos have set up a system with rules that they can change whenever they want. Rules that can be changed whenever are not rules. So if there are no rules, maybe its ok to cheat a casino?
ZakKnapper UK
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If you can get away with it then do what you want, it is very unlikely a casino will try and cheat you.

Zak
ssucahyo
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I don't know much about the casino but from several times visited, I have a feeling there is no way you can cheat them. Is that really we can still cheat them?
Please let me know...thank you and have a nice day.
brehaut
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, ZakKnapper UK wrote:
If you can get away with it then do what you want, it is very unlikely a casino will try and cheat you.

Zak



You don't think it's cheating for the casinos to change the rules in the middle of your play ? How about playing basketball to 10 points and after 5 points your opponent says we are only playing to 5?
Fanatikus
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If there was a written agreement between the player and the casino then of course the player has every right to fight for his money. Otherwise it's just a Chinese whisper.

Even if this story is true how can one particular person's or casino's decision (cheating) give me the right to generalise and cheat in any casino?
I can understand that if you are cheated in one store, the question of morality is not a concern any more at that particular place, but it is still illegal to cheat them back. Get evidence and multiply your money with a lawsuit Smile
JasonEngland
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, SatanicBurrito wrote:
Martingale works in theory


No it doesn't.

Quote:
"...we think you may have a gambling problem."


He did have a gambling problem: he was a moron who uses the Martingale.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
acesover
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Does anyone really believe card counting is cheating?
Quote:
On Mar 21, 2014, tommy wrote:
I see dealing cards ftom the botton of deck as more of skill than card counting.

Yes but one is hand skill and the other is mind skill. Bottom dealing is cheating, while card counting is just playing the odds.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
brehaut
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2014, acesover wrote:
Does anyone really believe card counting is cheating?


Yes---the casinos that throw you out for playing intelligently
AMcD
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Bottom dealing is not cheating! Suppose the deck is marked, the guys have the top card always in plain sight and, therefore, they know all the cards dealt. Dealing from the cellar avoid that.

(cough, cough!)
robotraker
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Card counting is not cheating! I am good at memory and get great grade, does it cheating? Of course no!
owner of eye marked cards
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