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Magique Hands Loyal user Lincoln, NE. 247 Posts |
I perform a smaller illusion show (mostly in night and comedy clubs), and do use music for a majority of the act. I have been informed by many of these club owners, that I don't need to pay any ASCAP or royalty fees, due to the fact that I am covered under their (club owner's) ASCAP licensing agreement.
I'm not sure if this is true or not. I have read the ASCAP licensing agreements for the type of show that I perform, and they make it quite clear that I need to pay them fees, for the public display of copyrighted music, and especially since I'm making a profit from performing the shows. Do any of you other performing magicians, or 'legal minded' contributors come across this? I for sure, want to be able to play the illusion music... legally! My show isn't that of Copperfield or a huge touring show, but I do perform the show quite a bit at various times of the year. It's more 'small time' at this point. I am aware of purchasing 'Royalty Free' music, so I suppose this would be an option for me. Any help from you guys would certainly be appreciated!! Magically, - - Troy
"If you go around sprinkling Woofle Dust on everything... people will think 'My... What an odd character." www.magicmafia.com
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Troy: There's an interesting article in this month's Linking Ring if you're an IBM member about this subject. It details the exact responsibilities and requirements.The bottom line, though, is that you are not responsible for licensing. That is the responsibility of the club that hires you. You are not actually displaying the copyrighted music. If you don't get the Linking ring and would like to E-mail me privately, I'd be glad to tell you exactly what the article states.
Where the magic begins
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Lee Marelli Special user Aurora, Colorado 876 Posts |
Dave is right; however, make sure the club does in fact have the coverage. Also, check the Café's old topics, I believe their has been a detailed thread on this.
"Mentalism is a state of mind." Marelli
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Bascomb Grecian Loyal user Redding, Ca. 202 Posts |
One of the restaurants I perform in was visited by a guy from BMI. He explained to my friend he did not have a licence to play the "Guitar" music in the background.
Now he only plays the "Radio". I hope we do not have to do that!
Welcome to The Magic Cafe'!
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x-treem Inner circle 1133 Posts |
A simple, cheap, effective way of getting around that is with a computer program called "Cakewalk" it allows you to "compose" your own music, without being a composer, it also has every instrument under the sun, for you to chose from, one set back, it does sound sort of computer like on a CD, depending on the sound card in your computer.
I've also composed my own music and found a "garage band," that had the sound I was looking for and dropped $100USD for them to record it. Oh yeah, a clubs liscense is all you need, I've "been there and done that," not wanting to go through it again, I do my own music.
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Okay, there's some common misinformation out there, I'm going to try to set it straight briefly, as I'm on my way out to a meeting soon....
ASCAP/BMI, in most circumstances, do NOT license music for the type of usage magicians use it for. They license for music that is not an integral part of the show, such as pre-show/intermission/post-show music, and background music in restaurants. In those cases, yes, responsibility is on the venue owner, not you. If it's an integral part of the show, however, licensing is to be done through the PUBLISHER of the piece of music, NOT ASCAP/BMI. In many cases, as long as you're not a very large act and are not on TV, most publishers will tell you that they don't care and you can use it, as it's just not worth their time for the little money they'd be able to get from you. But, of course, you do want to check with them first, rather than find out the expensive way that you've found the exception to this. But no, a club's license is not all you need. (As a bit of background, I know all this because, as some of you know, my other job is as a theatrical sound designer, and it's our job to, among other things, find or create music for use during theatrical productions. We need to know this stuff, and in one of the industry journals, a detailed rundown of all this stuff and the various types of licenses was printed about a year ago. For those who want to confirm this, do some research into what is called, IIRC, major vs. minor rights. One type is licensed by ASCAP/BMI, one by the publishers. I'm not 100% sure on those terms, I'll look them up if I can find the magazine and confirm it).
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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x-treem Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Thanks for the info Andy! It is amazing what a "grape vine" can do to information.... It almost makes you wonder if club owners even understand since it is what I was told during my club circuit tours.
Another problem I encountered before doing my own music was that most authors will not even bother getting back to you, realising of course that they are busy and big people. Thanks for clearing up all of that. X
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Also, to clarify, you need to go to the publisher, not the author. Any piece of music will say somewhere on the notes of the CD "published by XYZ Music Publishing" or something like that. Often it is a company run by or partially run by (or just a company name that's not really a company) the composer/lyricist, but not always :o)
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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skilusion New user 49 Posts |
I have a question along this same line. Do I need to pay to use songs in a promotional video? I was just wandering what anybody thought about this. The video would of course be given out and not sold. Thanks for any help you may have.
skilusion
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
Before I joined ASCAP, I learned what ASCAP/BMI was. I lost many jobs because restaurants and coffee shops would be scared when they would receive a licensing bill. As long as they are licensed thru ASCAP you don't pay anything.
It's quite confusing. I am a member of ASCAP. I understand and respect what ASCAP is doing for us musicians, especially, since for us to receive one credit we would have have at least 68,000 plays either on radio/internet. That one credit is around $5.75. Not a whole lot of money to use for. Still has to be declared on our taxes too.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
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ReaL2ReeL New user Jackson, Ms 22 Posts |
Is there a source for royalty-free music for stage shows? Would that solve the problem at all?
Thanks, ed
Where words fail, music speaks.
"Honey, where's the AmEx?" |
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
Sometimes the best way is to go to ASCAP or BMI website and find out if the piece of music is copyrighted. Typically if the music is over 75 years old and the family doesn't have a hold on it, it should be copyright free. Sometimes the publisher might hold a copyright on it. I can look it up for you quickly if you want. Just message me or email me. Is there a piece your trying to find out specifically that doesn't hold a copyright?
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
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Bascomb Grecian Loyal user Redding, Ca. 202 Posts |
All this talk about ASCAP and BMI is interesting.
Let me futher explain the BMI situation that happened to my good friend who owns a restaurant. He was basically told by BMI, "Pay us money or stop playing those CDs for your background music." Even though my friend bought and paid for the CDs, BMI wanted more money. I can see copyright issues if the owner charged admission to "listen" to the collection. He did not do this, he just played the music in the background. Personally, I would like to change the whole distribution method for music. The real problem is the musicians create the product, but they are the last paid. Bascomb
Welcome to The Magic Cafe'!
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
It's only fair that we get paid as little as we do. The amount of money the venues pay is not a lot and is a yearly fee. It's pro-rated. It's really not that complicated.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
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Faroshuffle New user Sacramento, CA (Orangevale) 69 Posts |
So, isn't there a simpler rule guideline for performers of magic shows? Example ... top 40 song to a routine? ASCAP? Publisher?
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
What do you mean guidelines? It's the same for anyone whether you're a skater or skateboarder.
The reason why Lance Burton's first T.V. special never ran had to do with the licensing. They didn't go through the proper channels to use it.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
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sir real New user I've been tied to 85 Posts |
If someone uses a "boombox" to play copyrighted music as background for a street show, would that fall under ASCAP as well?
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
I wouldn't worry about that. The only way it may pose a problem is at a festival or street fair and they require you use musicians, because of the union.
Are you referring to random street entertainment?
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
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sir real New user I've been tied to 85 Posts |
Yes, I was just wondering about this in the context of general street performing, busking for tips. Thanks, Sir Real
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
I wouldn't worry about it. There's no way to regulate the average person who plays music in public.
But I will double check the ASCAP licensing regulations later today.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
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