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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
This is the closest place I could find on this site to ask the question that I have in mind. Though I've never heard the term used, I believe there is such a thing as "spontaneous" magic. My feeling is this: if you're truly a real magician, then much of the time, magic would just happen spontaneously with you. You know, the kind of things that you don't plan or try to present. Perfect example here would be Orson Wells lighting his cigar with a light bulb. (Any one remember that?) Orson was as close to a real magician as they come. He also had a persona that was very persuasive and powerful.
Any way, I strive to create that spontaneous feel when I'm about my daily business. If I go into a store to purchase an item, I pay with my Kapps Flaming Wallet. Problem is, a lot of times when I open the wallet and the flames shoot up, I don't often get the wide-eyed amazement that it should elicit. In fact, most people look at the flames with all the excitement of a placid cow chewing her cud. What's wrong with this picture? Shouldn't the sight of flames shooting out of a place where they can't possibly be (my wallet) cause amazement and wonder? Are people jaded by all the magic they see on T.V. or are they brain dead? How can I explain away this enigma? It bothers me deeply. Am I perhaps doing something wrong, or am I expecting too much? Do I have to deadpan-look them with my best Blaine impression in order to kill with this? Somebody help me out here. I sometimes want to grab them and shake them and say, "Look you pinhead! There's gigantic floames shooting out of my wallet! Don't tell me. You see this every day right?! C'mon give me a break." Another question on the same topic is this: anyone have any more ideas on spontaneous effects that I can make happen on a daily basis while going about my business? I often wear a cap that says Mr. Magic on it, and I want to live up to this. I feel it's corny to approach people and say, "Wanna see a magic trick?" Although I know Blaine does it, I'm not him. I'm not that bold, yet. But I believe spontaneous magic will break the ice. Help me out fellas.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Jordan Piper Veteran user British Columbia, Canada 309 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-12-22 23:47, daffydoug wrote: You don't think wearing a hat that says Mr. Magic on it is corny? But seriously, I am surprised that people aren't more reactive to the fire wallet. Some other things you could try are a bill switch when paying. If what you're buying is 20 dollars hand the cashier a five dollar bill. Wait for them to say this is only a five and then change it into a 20 right before their eyes. There is a post in the Street Magic section called Guerilla Magic. It may also be of help to you. |
TJ Newton New user Oregon Coast 60 Posts |
Quite possibly the tip off from the hat may have people ready to expect the unexpected. Possibly not so willingly. Unfortunately unless someone is prepared for something they aren't totally focused and it passes them by. I have noticed that people are more amazed if I give them a chance to prepare. If I do something off the cuff without warning they usually miss it.
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Mediocre the Great Inner circle Rich Hurley 1062 Posts |
Maybe the reason people aren't reacting the way you want them to has something to do with your attitude.
For example, my mentor once pointed out to me that when I vanished a coin, I gave the audience a look like, "see what I did!" and I appeared to be looking for their reaction. Now I have a different attitude when I vanish a coin. I act more suprised and don't look to them for a reaction. Instead, I react to the coin as if it's really gone. As a result, I get better reactions. they seem more amazed than before, even though technically my method did not improve. It was all in my attitude. The secret may be in not expecting a reaction from the audience... instead, just react yourself. After you produce the flames, make like your fingers are hurting, or your hair may have been a bit cinged... come up with some funny line right after the flames... I don't know, like "If I keep this up, I might get fired..." (I know it's corney, but it matches the hat). Another thought...when you perform a magical illusion, you need a punctuation mark! Like when you produce a bottle out of nowhere... people don't react until you slam it down on the table... a dramatic explaination point. When you produce a jubbo coin, you drop it on the table with a clang.... those explaination points make the moment more dramatic. Bottom line, you just need to play with the trick some more until you find the perfect formula... have fun...
Mediocrity is greatly under rated!
-------------------------------------------- Rich Hurley aka Mediocre The Great! www.RichHurleyMagic.com |
MacGyver Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1419 Posts |
Oooh I feel a long-ish post coming...
Ok I think I can break this post into three parts, one is why you want to do these things, what the audience wants, and the third is the persona of a magician... lets take the last first. What is a magician? In a classical sense, and in what appears to be your sense, a magician is someone that can do magic. In today's sense however, a magician is an ENTERTAINER, someone who does very good illusions to entertain. Not counting a very few who try and convince people that they are legit, magicians are known to be entertainers. We are around to entertain others, not solve everyday problems with magic(even though that might be entertaining). If you say "I am a magician" or wear a "Mr. Magic" cap, people expect you to be able to entertain them with magic effects, not do REAL MAGIC. You are trying to Entertain them, not make them think you are cool. Now next we have the topic of why do you want to do these things for these people? Doing an effect for an audience, or someone who is bored and wants to see something is completly differnt than stopping someone on the street or someone at a work place and showing them something. Are you trying to make their day better? Are you trying to prove how cool and magical you are? What is the reason behind what you are doing? You have two quotes: Quote: And magic would just happen spontaneously with you. Quote:
But I believe spontaneous magic will break the ice. Now, you say magic will break the ice.. It sounds like you might be using magic to break the ice, rather than using it as entertainment. Like you are using the trick to get an "in". I have found that you first have to get "in" to a person's personal bubble before you can even start to do any magic for them. There has to be a rapport between you and the audience before you can do anything magical for them. You also say it should happen spontanously with you. Which is fine, but think about this: People aren't probably going to believe you are really magical. They know that flames coming from the wallet means some type of gimicked wallet or something gimicked, they might not know what, but they know that you cannot magically make flames appear. Also, if magic did happen spontanously, then it wouldn't be entertaining... You seem to want to entertain people, but having spont. magic just makes it seem like part of your life, not something they should be entertained by. If you REALLY were magical, then why would you expect people to be entertained when flames come from your wallet? To you it would be a regular occurance and something that you live with, not a source of entertainment to them. I hope some of that makes sense to anyone but me... As for the third part, other people and what they want. NOT EVERYONE LIKES MAGIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A lot of people like to be entertained, but on a basic level there are a lot of people that don't like pure and simple magic. It seems that a lot of people watching Blaine and the like think that if they go out and do magic tricks people will freak out and want to see them, this is really not the case. The biggest problem is that when you are entertaining someone, you would set up the flame wallet. You would have a rapport with the audience, and the flame would be there for some reason. There would be suspense, tension, and then a release at the end. You skip all of this when you do a random effect for someone. Think about it from their perspective. Say your a worker at a gas station: Ok... I have to go pick up my son then run by the grocery store and get some food to fix tonight, and hopefully I can get don.. oh someone is coming in.."Hi sir"...oh that reminds me I need to pick up a hat for my son too "... That'll be $24.54" What?!? was that flames coming out of his wallet? God I hope my boss didn't see that, I hope it doesn't catch fire to something and then my boss will be mad at me... Who is this guy and why is his wallet on fire? I hope he isn't crazy or anything..."Thanks sir, here's your change"..God I hope he doesn't do anything else dangerous or weird..."Good-bye!" ok now where was I, I have to go run to school and then..... People have lifes, they aren't running around waiting for you or anyone else to do magic for them. When they goto a magic show or turn on the TV, they are there EXPECTING and WANTING to see magic. They know whats up and what is going to happen. The performers usually talk or at least let them know via patter that SOMETHING is going to happen when he pulls out his wallet in a show. A flame wallet is a shock value thing, the shock might fit in to a routine where you have planted tension and suspense, but in a situtation where a person is just going about their lives, all it is, is a quick visual shock, Then they are back on with their lives.' They don't sit around wanting to give applause and a big reaction to any schmuck who comes walking in with a 30 dollar flame gizmo. They want to get by with the day and go home to relax. When they need 20 dollars and all you have is a One which you magically change into a 20, all they care about is getting the 20 dollars so they can get put in in the drawer and wait on the next person or whatever. They aren't in the frame of mind to be entertained. Think about a comedian... he wouldn't go around to every shop and store and things doing his routine expecting everyone to stop and listen and laugh hysterically. His show has a time and a place, and during the day usually isn't part of it. Now, I am not saying that you can NEVER do it... certainly if someone is bored, you can ask them if they want to see something, and if they say YES(this is a big part, it gets them WANTING and EXPECTING to see something amazing) then you can do a small trick for them to brighten up their day. But just don't spring it on them. I think a lot of this urge to perform for strangers comes from the urge to perform. You might have tired out your family and friends with magic, and you want to go out to perform for people. Hey, I did when I first started too, but since I have started doing paid gigs and actual magic shows, I have learnt that there is a time and a place for magic. I suggest you do some free shows for people(set it up with someone in charge in advance) and try to get some more work so you can perform for spectators regularly... then it'll get it out of your system for when your reaching to your wallet to pay for that gas bill or picking up lunch with your friends. Good luck to you and sorry for the long post Ignore it if you want |
Stuart Hooper Special user Mithrandir 759 Posts |
I am split on this issue, because for a small period in my magic "career", I went around paying for things with a fire wallet. I tended to agree about the spontaneaity of magic, like daffydoug says. However, one thing I now know is that the Fire Wallet it self is a flawed tool. It gets good reactions from a lot of people, but not so much from store clerks, lol. Also most people smell or realize some kind of gas/thing is going on...so it doesn't really seem like magic.
I disagree with Mcguyver on a couple things however. If you do find some sort of trick that is fairly visual, and doesn't require bothering your chosen audience, then many people will react, and many people will like it! It brightens their day. Also as far as breaking the Ice, I think magic is usefull in several social situations. For me, I've already seduced women and made plenty of friends just by being me. For me, depending on whom I'm with, I can be different things, and still be me. With many people my age especially, THEY don't start out very talkative, most teenagers are that way. In lieu of doing all the talking (which I am unfortunately capable of) I like to on occasion simply blow thier minds. Once they go "HOLY ****" A few times, we can relax and talk about other stuff. Then again many adults I meet really genuanely want to see my stuff, so I don't know what it is. I think we all try to be entertaining in life in general, and magic can not replace but enhance your character. So don't give up on just spontaneous magic! |
MacGyver Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1419 Posts |
I am not against impromptue magic, I do a lot myself... I am just saying that first off you have to check with them to make sure they are in the right mood to see something, and then talk with them(even 3 or 4 words) before you do anything.
I really don't think it is a good idea to do a trick and THEN talk to them. You have to at least say "Hey, would you like to see something interesting" or something, and then after you have shown them something, pulling out the firewallet might be ok. Because by then, you have established yourself as a magician and the flames are taken in the right way(i've never liked the prop either) Sure, you can do juggling, contact juggling, flourishes, or jokes or whatever to get them to watch you, but you still have to have some communication before you can start doing magic. Magic isn't magic without the other person understanding it and liking it. There has to be an INTREST in the spec to WANT to see something. You can't just do something and expect them to care. This can be as subtle as looking down at your hands when you have a quarter there, waiting for them to look and pause to think, and then changing or vanishing the coin. But there HAS TO BE A THOUGHT PROCESS OF "Hey, what is he doing? I want to know what he is doing and going to do". You can't just pull out a one and change it into a twenty, you need to make sure that they understand that something is going to happen before it happens. I personally don't like going anywhere with the INTENTION of doing magic for strangers. That to me is the big difference. Sure I see people that look bored, or whatever and I do magic for them to brighten their day. But that is me REACTING to them. If you go out with the INTENTION of doing magic for people, without knowing their state of mind or willingness to see magic before hand, you are forcing them into a situation that they have to react to. When people go see street magic, or table magic, or a magic show, or a TV program, ect, they go WILLINGLY and know what to expect. You don't get that when you approach someone. I just feel that you shouldnt go around with the intent.... you need to wait for them to make the first move, whether that it just looking bored or giving you an intrested look. Then you REACT to them, and convey that you are about to do something magical. This can all be non-verbal, but it has to be there!!!! Your points on breaking the ice are dead on. You have to be able to break the ice without magic before you can do it with magic, imho. Magic is all about presentation, which is you. Magic is not a replacement for your personality!!!!! |
Aperazor Loyal user Akron,Ohio 244 Posts |
If you have ever worked in the retail field, especially taking money you would know why.
There were so many warnings issued about scams to steal money, counterfits, confusion asking for change etc.... Anytime somebody starts doing something strange, or starts talking, joking excessively your guard goes up. Just a possibile reason. People do some crazy things to steal, I've seen people drop money over the counter and when you go to help they slide several expensive items down the table, they get you talking hoping you will forget or let them slide with there 25 expired coupons etc... Kind of the same thing takes place when you try to talk to a cop on duty...Magicians aren't the only ones who understand how effective distraction is. Just my 2 Nick Zender (Ape) By the way- Welcome aboard Daffy. |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
In many stores in Chicago, setting off a fire wallet will trigger the sprinkler system!
BAD thing to have happen in the checkout line - trust me on that! ;) I usually do impromptu magic IN the line while waiting, not when checking out. It helps kill the boredom while waiting - both for the other folks in line and for me, but when you get to the register, pay and move on! People are waiting to get on with their lives. Slowing down the checkout procedure is generally a good way to annoy those in line behind you. I know, because when someone does something to slow down the checkout process, I usually get annoyed myself! Happy holidays, Lee Darrow, C.Ht. http://www.leedarrow.com
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
Stuart Hooper Special user Mithrandir 759 Posts |
Just so you know, Macgyver, again I no longer use a firewallet, but if I did, I would put it into the "juggling/flourishes/jokes" category. You say that one needs to ask if people want to see magic, I say that card florishes or coin rolls, or yes perhaps opening a firewallet as people go by....that IS asking them if they want to see magic. If they aren't interested, they keep moving! However, I will agree that rarely would my improptu magic (if ever) be for shop clerk....Just not the right environment. But the firewallet definately falls into that flourish category. I think walking up to someone, asking them if they want to see something, and opening a firewallet is a dead end....The *** thing really doesn't do that much! But I can see it's value in places to get people to walk over and find out what's up!
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
If I used one, and I don't, I'd want there to be some MOTIVATION for the fire. For example, I'd borrow a bill, have the spectator mark it for later identification, switch it for a flash bill, light the flash bill on fire to make it appear as if the real bill vanished in a flash of fire, and then show that the bill transported to my wallet which would burst into flames when I first opened it. That way, it would appear that the burning bill appeared in my wallet versus the wallet itself being on fire. Without motivation, it's just a gag in my opinion.
Larry D. |
daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
I really appreciate all the input here, and I will read and heed the advice as much as possible, but another thought occured to me. I knew a fellow magi who when he lit his cigarette, would unfailingly, and casually use the fire wallet to light it. It seemed so natural, and to my eyes so magical. Unfortunately for me, I don't smoke, and NEVER will, for personal health reasons. But it gets me to thinking. Remember Orson Wells, and how he lit his cigar off the nearest lightbulb? Way cool. Don't misunderstand me fella, I admire Orson as the magician he was, but of course I don't have his persona, but my one driving goal as a magician, that is, what really actuates me, is to be the genuine article, as much as possible. To carry the magic with me wherever I go, and to touch peoples lives with it, and in the end, perhaps put a few on a different path. I'm not the saviour of the world, but I really feel that with magic, I have something beautiful and wonderful to spread around. Doug Henning said the art of magic is the art of creating wonder, and I've always bought into that ever since I saw him back in the seventies. Just a few thoughts here. But truthfully, I'm am really appreciating all the deep, dare I say profound?, insights on this thread.
Oh, and by the way, about the "corny" Mr Magic hat, well, there are a couple reasons why I wear it. #1, It was made for me by some very dear friends who own a t shirt and printing place here in town. They have been very supportive of my magic, and helped me out in ways I could never dream. So I wear it as an honor to them, and to also help advertise their business. #2 A lot of people wear hats with things printed on them. Some are extremely corny or offensive. Mine is just part of my walking billboard philosophy.. If you got it, flaunt it. And if I don't blow my own horn, than who will? #3, I found my own hair doing a dissapearing act a while back, and I don't know the effect to bring it back, and so I took to wearing a cap to cover my EMBARRASMENT. It's very personal. Anyway, the caps I used to wear always advertised SOMEONE ELSES business on them, and I thought, why am I advertising for them?!! It's time to promote and advertise my own product. (ME aand my magic of course) So that's how it started, and I've been doing it ever since. It fits my personality. I'm a flambuoyant person. It's pretty natural. So, any way, that is why I am willing to be "corny". Just thought you'd like to know.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Mike Walton Special user Chicago 984 Posts |
Quote:
Another question on the same topic is this: anyone have any more ideas on spontaneous effects that I can make happen on a daily basis while going about my business? I often wear a cap that says Mr. Magic on it, and I want to live up to this. I feel it's corny to approach people and say, "Wanna see a magic trick?" Although I know Blaine does it, I'm not him. I'm not that bold, yet. But I believe spontaneous magic will break the ice. Help me out fellas. The best information on spontaneous magic I've read is a small piece in Art of Astonishment, Book 3 on Page 7 about David Abrams and his experiences with magic in other countries & cultures. The section about paying with coins can be translated to any culture. The whole section titled "The Other Side of Astonishment" is delightful and inspirational. It's nice to read anecdotes about magic rather than only about how to create magic. It was originally published as "Making Magic" in the Utne Reader Jan/Feb '88 |
Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
Many store clerks encounter people who are just begging to get attention from them - they tire of it. If they sense that you have a huge need for attention, they will make sure that you don't get it.
If you're going to do the gag, it must be acted properly. It takes a very self-aware performer to pull it off, consistently. |
youngdanf New user 45 Posts |
Just a quick thought here as well. I work in customer service taking check orders all day over the phone. It's just one call after another of the exact same thing, over and over again, until I finish my schooling. Trust me that it is incredibly repetitive. Some so much so, that it drives people crazy and the turnover rate is really high. Most people can't stand it for more than a year or two at the very most.
I imagine that a clerk at the store is much the same way. If they have been doing it for a while they have seen almost everything, and not much will surprise them. My co-worker was on the phone with a bank rep once when the bank rep suddenly found her branch in the middle of an armed robbery, and another talked to Monica Lewinsky, while talking to customers on the phone. I've heard people get abused in the background. So forgive them for their lack of reaction. Also, they probably aren't making big bucks, and I highly doubt while in grade school they told everyone "When I grow up I want to be a clerk at the gas station." I'm not saying it's a bad job or anything, but I highly doubt it's their dream job, and they are probably toughing it out until something better comes along. (kind of like me...I can't wait until I finish with school). Also like MacGyver pointed out, they have their normal lives to worry about. On the flip side of the coin, if you do some great magic that destroys the monotony of their day, they may really appreciate it. Just a little insight into what they might be feeling. Good luck with the magic! |
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