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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Knockout Game (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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silvercup
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Quote:
On 2013-12-27 17:31, mastermindreader wrote:
All that should matter is whether the victim was singled out and attacked solely because of his/her race or sexual identity.

That shouldn't matter at all.
That people have made it an issue is sad sad sad.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2013-12-27 17:31, mastermindreader wrote:
All that should matter is whether the victim was singled out and attacked solely because of his/her race or sexual identity.


I didn't mean irrelevant in the sense of what "should" be; I meant as far as in actual practice.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Here are the nation-wide stats:

Quote:
In 2010, the race of 4,432 offenders of bias-motivated crimes was known. The majority of these offenders were white (72 percent), and 20 percent were black.
...
Four in ten violent hate crimes against white victims between 2003 and 2009 involved a white offender and two in ten violent hate crimes against black victims involved a black offender. During this same timeframe, more than seven in ten violent crimes against white victims involving no apparent bias were perpetrated by white offenders and more than eight in ten violent crimes with no bias against black victims were perpetrated by black offenders.[11]

Of the 3,135 single-bias incidents that were motivated by race, 70 percent were incidents of an anti-black bias; an anti-white bias motivated crimes against 18 percent; an anti-Asian/Pacific Islander bias motivated crimes against 5 percent; and 1 percent were incidents of an anti-American Indian/Alaska Native bias.


See complete stats at: http://www.victimsofcrime.org/library/cr......as-crime
LobowolfXXX
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The question is, if the evidence is equal, do you think that in practice, the victim's and perpetrator's race is irrelevant to the decision of whether or not to prosecute as a hate crime, in practice? Or do you think that race has an effect?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Yes, of course it has an effect, the degree of which is really dependent on where the crime took place. The statistics, though, show that convictions rates of different races for hate crimes pretty much are the same as the racial demographics of the country.
rockwall
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I'd really like to see those statistics.
Dannydoyle
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On 2013-11-19 03:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
And battery. Except when the guy dies.


Google "One punch homicide" some time.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2013-12-28 23:10, rockwall wrote:
I'd really like to see those statistics.



I POSTED them a few posts back.
Magnus Eisengrim
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I have to suspect that none of these attacks is successfully prosecuted as a hate crime. But I bet the threat of hate crime prosecution leads to a lot of pleading guilty to lesser charges.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
mastermindreader
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Agreed. Simply because it is white-on-black or black-on white-crime isn't enough to prove hate crime. In the recent case, though, the white defendant specifically stated that he targeted a random black person simply because of race. In the Matthew Shepherd hate crime prosecution it as also proven that the victim was killed solely because of his sexual orientation.

And despite the insidious undertone in some of these posts, hate crimes are usually committed against minorities.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2013-12-29 13:12, mastermindreader wrote:
Agreed. Simply because it is white-on-black or black-on white-crime isn't enough to prove hate crime. In the recent case, though, the white defendant specifically stated that he targeted a random black person simply because of race. In the Matthew Shepherd hate crime prosecution it as also proven that the victim was killed solely because of his sexual orientation.

And despite the insidious undertone in some of these posts, hate crimes are usually committed against minorities.




Which posts have "insidious undertones" here, let alone undertones that suggest that hate crimes aren't usually committed against minorities? To the extent that my posts have any undertones, I contend that they're certainly not insidious, nor are they intended to suggest anything about the frequency with which hate crimes are committed. Having said that, I *do* suspect that hate crimes against minorities are more likely to be prosecuted as hate crimes than hate crimes by minorities against non-minorities, other things (e.g. all available evidence) being equal.

That's a position that is all but unsupportable and unassailable by statistics such as comparing the percentage of hate crime prosecutions and convictions with the racial demographics of a locale, because 1) we don't know how many potential hate crimes weren't prosecuted as such, and 2) we don't know for any of those cases that "all available evidence" was equal.

But if Reginald Denny wasn't the victim of a hate crime, nobody ever has been.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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None of your posts had that undertone, Lobo. Suprised you'd think I was referring to yours.
LobowolfXXX
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I think you did, necessarily, but it wasn't entirely clear to me that you didn't, and I wanted to be clear about my position, since I realized my posts were a bit ambiguous.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Bob1Dog
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Looks like the state of Washington takes the knockout game pretty seriously.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2014/02/18......out.html
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
General_Magician
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Quote:
On 2014-02-19 01:18, Bob1Dog wrote:
Looks like the state of Washington takes the knockout game pretty seriously.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2014/02/18......out.html


Glad to see the state of Washington takes the knockout game seriously, though I think the penalty should be stiffer than what they are proposing. I agree with Senator Jeannie Darneille that many of the perpetrators of this crime don't seem to target somebody who is their own size or strength which would warrant a stiffer penalty given that many of the victims seem to be the elderly. At least that is what I have seen on video as well.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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mastermindreader
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Assault and battery has always been illegal in Washington State. (and everywhere else). From the article cited above:

Quote:
Sen. Adam Kline, D-Seattle, questioned how big of a problem the knockout game really is. Police officials in several cities where such attacks have been reported told the New York Times last year that they might be nothing more than the sort of random assaults that have always occurred.

Kline voted against the bill, saying he believes knockout-game type attacks already are covered adequately under state law.

“Fads come and go, our law doesn’t,” Kline said. “I suggest we don’t change our law to accommodate this particular type of fad.”

The legislation now heads to the state House for consideration.

Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2014/02/18......link=cpy

LobowolfXXX
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Wow, "covered adequately" by the law making it a misdemeanor.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2014-02-19 03:09, mastermindreader wrote:
Assault and battery has always been illegal in Washington State. (and everywhere else).


It was illegal everywhere back when they started passing hate crime legislation, too.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Read the article carefully. Currently such attacks CAN BE classified as fourth degree assaults, which are gross misdemeanors. That doesn't mean they must be. Obviously, the degree of injury, vulnerability of the victim, etc. are also factors in determining the charge.

The current bill, if passed, would make it mandatory to charge at least third degree assault if it were shown the attack was made during the so-called "knock out game." To my knowledge, no such case has ever been brought in this state.

Reminds me a bit of the continuing attempts to pass laws against ACORN.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2014-02-19 03:20, mastermindreader wrote:
Currently such attacks CAN BE classified as fourth degree assaults, which are gross misdemeanors. That doesn't mean they must be. Obviously, the degree of injury, vulnerability of the victim, etc. are also factors in determining the charge.


So, catch & release until and unless someone is hurt, a la DUI. No thanks.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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