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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Knockout Game (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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I didn't say, nor does Washington law say, anything even remotely resembling that. Nor does that reflect the reality of law enforcement in this state.
LobowolfXXX
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On 2014-02-19 13:11, mastermindreader wrote:
I didn't say, nor does Washington law say, anything even remotely resembling that. Nor does that reflect the reality of law enforcement in this state.


I think when you point out that it "could be" charged as a misdemeanor based on things like "the degree of injury," you're saying something quite a bit like that.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Bob1Dog
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I'm not a lawyer gents, but here's the second paragraph of the story:

"The state Senate passed a bill Tuesday that would make it a felony for anyone to randomly attack a person in public who they have never met or spoken to."

I see you guys talking about misdemeanors, when it seems the key words here are "make it a felony." Now I may be missing something cuz I'm a mere layman. Unless a "third degree assault" is legal speak for a felony, in which case I stand corrected. Smile
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
LobowolfXXX
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On 2014-02-19 13:40, Bob1Dog wrote:
I'm not a lawyer gents, but here's the second paragraph of the story:

"The state Senate passed a bill Tuesday that would make it a felony for anyone to randomly attack a person in public who they have never met or spoken to."

I see you guys talking about misdemeanors, when it seems the key words here are "make it a felony." Now I may be missing something cuz I'm a mere layman. Unless a "third degree assault" is legal speak for a felony, in which case I stand corrected. Smile


Currently, it could be a misdemeanor or a felony; the proposed law would make it a felony. Under the current law, a variety of categories of assaults are automatically classified as felonies; this would add another to the list.

So our discussion is about whether it's appropriate that some such assaults & batteries are misdemeanors (currently).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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The so-called "knock-out game" is a felony in any event because it involves the separate offense of conspiracy. (Two or more individuals planning to commit a criminal act.) Conspiracy is a felony regardless of the degree of the offense committed.

Thus there is no need for a separate law.
LobowolfXXX
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On 2014-02-19 15:05, mastermindreader wrote:
The so-called "knock-out game" is a felony in any event because it involves the separate offense of conspiracy. (Two or more individuals planning to commit a criminal act.) Conspiracy is a felony regardless of the degree of the offense committed.

Thus there is no need for a separate law.


That logic doesn't hold up. Conspiracy is a separate crime and a separate charge from the battery. Regardless of whether or not participants are guilty of conspiracy, they're also guilty of assault and battery; the issue is whether the act itself should ever be considered a misdemeanor.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Bob1Dog
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Quote:
On 2014-02-19 15:05, mastermindreader wrote:
The so-called "knock-out game" is a felony in any event because it involves the separate offense of conspiracy. (Two or more individuals planning to commit a criminal act.) Conspiracy is a felony regardless of the degree of the offense committed.




I don't see where conspiracy is even mentioned in the article. Again, refer to the second paragraph, which states that the new law would make it a felony for "anyone," not any two or any three, etc. Just my lay observation.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? Smile

My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
mastermindreader
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The knock out "game" as it has been described in the press, involves groups of young people challenging each other to knock someone out with one punch.

If this legislation is simply designed to make it a felony for an individual to strike someone for no apparent reason, it is NOT directed at the knock out game. It simply is making simple assault a felony, regardless of the injury to the victim or the intent of the assailant.

In the so-called "game," the conspiracy aspect certainly DOES hold up, because the game, by definition, IS a conspiracy and, thus, a felony.
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It's not making all simple assaults felonies, however.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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A variety of simple assaults in Washington are already felonies, e.g. On a bus driver while performing his/her duty. The proposed law would a category of automatic felony assaults.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Only those where the assailant has never met or spoken to the victim? Like when someone gives you the finger or a dirty look and you punch him?

"The state Senate passed a bill Tuesday that would make it a felony for anyone to randomly attack a person in public who they have never met or spoken to."

Sounds pretty vague to me. And, if that's what the law actually says, it's incorrect to describe it as being in response to the "knock-out game."
LobowolfXXX
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On 2014-02-19 16:02, mastermindreader wrote:
Only those where the assailant has never met or spoken to the victim? Like when someone gives you the finger or a dirty look and you punch him?

"The state Senate passed a bill Tuesday that would make it a felony for anyone to randomly attack a person in public who they have never met or spoken to."

Sounds pretty vague to me. And, if that's what the law actually says, it's incorrect to describe it as being in response to the "knock-out game."


It may be over-inclusive, but it certainly covers the assaults that take place in the knock-out game, and according to the comments of at least two legislators (quoted in the article), it clearly IS in response to the knockout game.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Yes, but the statute they wrote clearly is not.

Present assault and conspiracy laws already cover the "knock out game.
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"in response to" speaks to their motivations. It unequivocally WAS in response to the knockout game. That doesn't mean it's a perfect match (as it almost never is). So it happens to cover some additional assaults. I think there's some merit to the distinction. If you get into an argument with someone at a bar, there's a good chance for at least some awareness that physical violence may arise, and you can try to calm the situation down, defend yourself, etc. If someone randomly attacks you for no reason, that's far less likely to be the case, and far more dangerous therefore. Currently, if you punch an unsuspecting person in the back of the head and don't cause any serious pain or lingering effects, that's a misdemeanor. I think that's inappropriate.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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On 2014-02-19 16:06, mastermindreader wrote:
Yes, but the statute they wrote clearly is not.

Present assault and conspiracy laws already cover the "knock out game.


Apparently insufficiently, in some eyes.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Do you recall the case from about a week ago in which a father walked over to a car and punched the driver because he had been staring at his daughter while masturbating? He never previously met or spoke to the guy. Would that constitute a felony under the proposed "knock out game" law?
LobowolfXXX
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On 2014-02-19 16:12, mastermindreader wrote:
Do you recall the case from about a week ago in which a father walked over to a car and punched the driver because he had been staring at his daughter while masturbating? He never previously met or spoke to the guy. Would that constitute a felony under the proposed "knock out game" law?


I didn't hear of the case, but clearly it would.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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I disagree. But even if it was, you'd be hard pressed to find a prosecutor who'd bring charges or a jury who would convict.

The problem is that the proposed law is vague and does not directly address the "problem" it purports to- the knock out game, which involves several individuals challenging others to knock a random person out with a single punch.
LobowolfXXX
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On 2014-02-19 16:29, mastermindreader wrote:
I disagree. But even if it was, you'd be hard pressed to find a prosecutor who'd bring charges or a jury who would convict.

Actually, upon rereading, I tend to agree with you; the father didn't "randomly" attack him.

Quote:
The problem is that the proposed law is vague and does not directly address the "problem" it purports to- the knock out game, which involves several individuals challenging others to knock a random person out with a single punch.

As you say, all participants are already guilty of felony conspiracy. The new law, however, addresses the knockout game by making the puncher guilty of a felony, regardless of the outcome of the attack. If it happens to ALSO encompass other people (i.e. people not playing the knockout game) who physically attack strangers, I don't find that to be a problem. More of a bonus.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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But, then, there's this, which puts the whole thing in a more realistic perspective, I think:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20......nic.html
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