The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Would performing a Seance illusion be considered "un-christian"? (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
Danny, can you clarify this and expand it a bit more please?

"The more we use our talents, the less we allow God to do what he does best. If that does not suit you well, I am afraid to tell you that you lack faith in God, and put more of your faith in your talents instead."
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
Sometimes we put more trust and faith in ourselves than we do in God. We try to earn God's favour using our natural talents, rather than using and trusting the faith given to us.

We all lack faith, but the more we put faith in our own works, the less faith we are demonstrating in God.

Not sure if that helps.

I don't feel I can expand on it anymore than that, because I just don't know how. I am not a humble servant of the Lord. I struggle with my own faith and pride almost everyday. Today is one of them.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
Bryan, I will pm you when I get a chance. I was trying to post from my mobile just after performing a show. Pretty tired right now. Thanks.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
Definitely man, looking forward to it.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
"The more we use our talents, the less we allow God to do what he does best."

When we use our talents we bring glory to ourselves, and the more we use our talents the less glory God recieves. we must present
ourselves to God as his servants. What God does best is being Lord of our lives. Our lives is shaped by the decisions we make, and the greatest of these decisions is this, am I the lord of my life, or is God the Lord of my life? We will either try to rule our own lives or submit to the authority of God


"If that does not suit you well, I am afraid to tell you that you lack faith in God, and put more of your faith in your talents instead."

When we put more trust in ourselves, our own talents, we are not living like stewards for God. Our trust and faith is not first in Him with whom we claim to be the Lord of our lives. We all lack faith in God, but some don't lack in faith, they clearly have lots of faith in themselves and what they can do rather than faith in what God can do.

Take me for instance. I struggle with pride issues all the time. I am in no way a humble servant for God, but I have been humbled several times in my life because I put more trust in myself rather than in God. I have taken credit for things God was doing, and I would become proud. I thank God that I am saved by grace, and not by works. I'm thankful that God loved me so much He was willing to let me fall so that I could stand again.

I have probally lived a different life than most here. I came from a broken home, was abused by my father, left home to live on the streets, got involved with gangs, drugs, alcohol, spent time in jail. That is who I would still be if it wasn't for God intervening in my life the way He did. I am what I am today because of God. Nothing I did changed my life.


"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. Neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside Thee, which worketh for him that waiteth for Him. Isa. 40:31, 64:4.

Here we have two texts in which the connection between waiting and working is made clear. In the first we see that waiting brings the needed strength for working--that it fits for joyful and unwearied work. They that wait on the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up on eagles' wings; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk, and not faint.' Waiting on God has its value in this: it makes us strong in work for God. The second reveals the secret of this strength. God worketh for Him that waiteth for Him.' The waiting on God secures the working of God for us and in us, out of which our work must spring. The two passages teach the great lesson, that as waiting on God lies at the root of all true working for God, so working for God must be the fruit of all true waiting on Him. Our great need is to hold the two sides of the truth in perfect conjunction and harmony.

There are some who say they wait upon God, but who do not work for Him. For this there may be various reasons. Here is one who confounds true waiting on God (in living direct intercourse with Him as the Living One), and the devotion to Him of the energy of the whole being, with the slothful, helpless waiting that excuses itself from all work until God, by some special impulse, has made work easy. Here is another who waits on God more truly, regarding it as one of the highest exercises of the Christian life, and yet has never understood that at the root of all true waiting there must lie the surrender and the readiness to be wholly fitted for God's use in the service of men. And here is still another who is ready to work as well as wait, but is looking for some great inflow of the Spirit's power to enable him to do mighty works, while he forgets that as a believer he already has the Spirit of Christ dwelling in Him; that more grace is only given to those who are faithful in the little; and that it is only in working that we can be taught by the Spirit how to do the greater works. All such, and all Christians, need to learn that waiting has working for its object, that it is only in working that waiting can attain its full perfection and blessedness. It is as we elevate working for God to its true place, as the highest exercise of spiritual privilege and power, that the absolute need and the divine blessing of waiting on God can be fully known.

On the other hand, there are some, there are many, who work for God, but know little of what it is to wait on Him. They have been led to take up Christian work, under the impulse of natural or religious feeling, at the bidding of a pastor or a society, with but very little sense of what a holy thing it is to work for God. They do not know that God's work can only be done in God's strength, by God Himself working in us. They have never learnt that, just as the Son of God could do nothing of Himself, but that the Father in Him did the work, as He lived in continual dependence before Him, so, and much more, the believer can do nothing but as God works in him. They do not understand that it is only as in utter weakness we depend upon Him, His power can rest on us. And so they have no conception of a continual waiting on God as being one of the first and essential conditions of successful work. And Christ's Church and the world are sufferers to-day, oh, so terribly! not only because so many of its members are not working for God, but because so much working for God is done without waiting on God.

Among the members of the body of Christ there is a great diversity of gifts and operations. Some, who are confined to their homes by reason of sickness or other duties, may have more time for waiting on God than opportunity of direct working for Him. Others, who are over pressed by work, find it very difficult to find time and quiet for waiting on Him. These may mutually supply each other's lack. Let those who have time for waiting on God definitely link themselves to some who are working. Let those who are working as definitely claim the aid of those to whom the special ministry of waiting on God has been entrusted. So will the unity and the health of the body be maintained. So will those who wait know that the outcome will be power for work, and those who work, that their only strength is the grace obtained by waiting. So will God work for His Church that waits on Him.

Let us pray that as we proceed in these meditations on working for God, the Holy Spirit may show us how sacred and how urgent our calling is to work, how absolute our dependence is upon God's strength to work in us, how sure it is that those who wait on Him shall renew their strength, and how we shall find waiting on God and working for God to be indeed inseparably one."
This is where I got the quote from, http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/mu......king.htm

Are we working on our talents that edifies us? Or, are we working on what God has given us to edify Him?

God bless!
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
harris
View Profile
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
8694 Posts

Profile of harris
Ecclesiastes....all the cattle, all the gold, wive(s) (jokes,props, routines, awards....) are for naught.

Sometimes it is my gifts, other times my thorn(s)......

and in the end (and the beginning) there is God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus.

The wisdom of Harris is folly to God. (Cor.)

The evil one is real. As we grow closer to God, we need to draw even closer as attacks can happen.

love brother Harris
still too old to know everything and I keep into His Word.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
Quote:
On 2013-12-04 12:16, Danny Kazam wrote:
"The more we use our talents, the less we allow God to do what he does best."

When we use our talents we bring glory to ourselves, and the more we use our talents the less glory God recieves. we must present
ourselves to God as his servants. What God does best is being Lord of our lives. Our lives is shaped by the decisions we make, and the greatest of these decisions is this, am I the lord of my life, or is God the Lord of my life? We will either try to rule our own lives or submit to the authority of God



To clarify to the OP I think the idea of a seance with the exception of showing it to be fraudulent is not a good idea.

Danny:
I don't see this distinction of earthly talents. Where on your view do talents come from? I believe that God is sovereign. I believe that God has gifted people in different areas, after all one cannot learn to sing by simply taking courses. God has given us the gifts of, in our case, public speaking, the ability to hold attention. I know that I never want to water down my message in my. I don't want to shoehorn a message into a trick just to be a "Christian Illusionist" . That being said though, I never want to water down the art and slap a trick into a message just to do "Gospel magic" I believe God has called us to excellence in what He has gifted us at.

I know the parable of the servants uses the word talents, but hermeneutically we know that means an amount of money, so let's use sum for short.

To some people he has given a certain sum, and to others a different sum, however which servant was not doing the right thing? The one who buried his sum and never used it. I want to hear well done good and faithful servant.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
The Bible gives us many scriptures that explains the difference between our own talents, skills, efforts, and the gifts of the Spirit. I do not wish to continue going around the same circle.
You asked of me to expand a bit on a couple of my quotes, "Danny, can you clarify this and expand it a bit more please?

"The more we use our talents, the less we allow God to do what he does best. If that does not suit you well, I am afraid to tell you that you lack faith in God, and put more of your faith in your talents instead."

I took kind to do so, or at least made my best effort to. I apologize if it were not enough, but I believe I addressed your disagreements already in my previous posts which I point to scriptures as my source.

I learned how to sing because I took singing lessons. I didn't wake up one day and suddenly knew how to play the piano. I had to take lessons. I learned how to perform magic because I read books and watched DVD's.

I didn't learn how to have faith, but God taught me what I should do with it. I cannot learn to perform miracles, or learn how to speak in tongues, or learn how to supernaturally heal people, etc. No matter how much Bible school education I recieve doesn't somehow give me the gift of teaching. I don't know how much more that needs to be expanded.

That doesn't mean that we can't have talents and skills. As we are all called to be witnesses for Christ, we should be examples for Christ in ALL that we do. God can gift us to compensate for our lack of talent, but we cannot compensate the lack of spiritual gifts in our lives with our own talents.


We as entertainers should be shining for Christ regardless if we are performing Gospel magic or not. We should be using our talents to glorify God.

Even though we are carnal, God still uses us, and will use our talents, not to benifit us, but to benifit His work in other peoples lives.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
Danny, maybe I'm just crazy but aren't we saying the same thing?

No matter how many lessons I take I'll never sing like Josh Groban. I'm curious on your view of God's plan for people's lives? Does He not bless some with certain talents and abilities to use for his glory?

This whole talk of carnality is irrelevant to the idea of using your talents for God. This notion of using our talents hampers God is bizarre. Was Paul not gifted in debate and writing and out to use in Athens? You seem to suggest that the Holy Spirit can't work through people sharing the Gospel using their talents? Does a pastor stand and read scripture monotone?

I think we all know it's not because of us, but it's in spite of us God works. I know that when people come to know Jesus during my show it's not me doing that. It's the Holy Spirit moving through the preaching of His word.

Again I'm not even sure what you are arguing against.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
I am not arguing. You asked me to expand a bit, and I did. You then wanted more from me. Do not look to me, but seek out God's Word for the answers you seek. If you think we are saying the same thing then why do you ask me so many questions? Why wasn't my effort to expand a bit on two of my quotes not enough? I am not the author of the Bible. I stated what I believe using scripture to back it up so no one can give me credit, but hopefully draw others to their own Bibles. That's all I can do.

I never said that using our talents hampers God, and to be honest, I take offense to being misquoted like that. God doesn't need our talents, plain and simple. God will use our talents, but our talents never help God's spiritual gifts bestowed upon us.

2 Corinthians 11:6 King James Bible
But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

11:5-15 It is far better to be plain in speech, yet walking openly and consistently with the gospel, than to be admired by thousands, and be lifted up in pride, so as to disgrace the gospel by evil tempers and unholy lives. The apostle would not give room for any to accuse him of worldly designs in preaching the gospel, that others who opposed him at Corinth, might not in this respect gain advantage against him. Hypocrisy may be looked for, especially when we consider the great power which Satan, who rules in the hearts of the children of disobedience, has upon the minds of many. And as there are temptations to evil conduct, so there is equal danger on the other side. It serves Satan's purposes as well, to set up good works against the atonement of Christ, and salvation by faith and grace. But the end will discover those who are deceitful workers; their work will end in ruin. Satan will allow his ministers to preach either the law or the gospel separately; but the law as established by faith in Christ's righteousness and atonement, and the partaking of his Spirit, is the test of every false system.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
wwhokie1
View Profile
Elite user
488 Posts

Profile of wwhokie1
I strive to give God the credit, glory, and thanks for the gifts he has given me, as well as for the talents and skills he has provided me with, as I am his creation. I thank God for the ability and motivation he has provided to develop those skills and talents. I thank God for the opportunities to use all of those, separately or in combination, to do the tasks he calls me to do and sends me out to do. I try to guard against pride and seek to remember that it is God and not me - sometimes I fail. I have found myself thanking God for mistakes and blunders that at times make me look bad, because those things provide the lesson of humility that is too often needed. I am thankful that God desires for me to offer all that I am and have to him for his use and his purposes, realizing that they are all gifts from him in some way or other.

Phil 4:8-9 "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you."
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
The difference between an entertainment-oriented preacher and a Bible-oriented preacher is the manifest connection of the preacher’s words to the Bible as what authorizes what he says.

The entertainment-oriented preacher gives the impression that he is not tethered to an authoritative book in what he says. What he says doesn’t seem to be shaped and constrained by an authority outside himself. He gives the impression that what he says has significance for reasons other than that it manifestly expresses the meaning and significance of the Bible. So he seems untethered to objective authority.

The entertainment-oriented preacher seems to be at ease talking about many things that are not drawn out of the Bible. In his message, he seems to enjoy more talking about other things than what the Bible teaches. His words seem to have a self-standing worth as interesting or fun. They are entertaining. But they don’t give the impression that this man stands as the representative of God before God’s people to deliver God’s message.

The Bible-oriented preacher, on the other hand, does see himself that way—“I am God’s representative sent to God’s people to deliver a message from God.” He knows that the only way a man can dare to assume such a position is with a trembling sense of unworthy servanthood under the authority of the Bible. He knows that the only way he can deliver God’s message to God’s people is by rooting it in and saturating it with God’s own revelation in the Bible.
John Piper
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
God bless everyone.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
""The more we use our talents, the less we allow God to do what he does best. If that does not suit you well, I am afraid to tell you that you lack faith in God, and put more of your faith in your talents instead."

It's this quote I was going off of Danny. My intention is not to offend at all but to learn and get clarification. You object to me asking questions on your opinion as if it's a bad thing, yet earlier you wrote to someone else that the reason you asked him so many questions was to learn. Am I not allowed the same opportunity.

Perhaps hamper wasn't the best word for me to use.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
Where do I say I object to you asking questions? Have I not tried to answer them for you? You put words in my mouth, and then say you just want clarification? Have I not expanded and clarified those two statements enough? I even apologized if it wasn't enough for you. That's it, that's all I got. Seek God's Words in scripture brother, and let his light shine fourth. Smile


Peace!
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
"If you think we are saying the same thing then why do you ask me so many questions? Why wasn't my effort to expand a bit on two of my quotes not enough?"
Just going off this brother. No worries man it's been good talking to you. I think we'll just agree to agree lol.
wwhokie1
View Profile
Elite user
488 Posts

Profile of wwhokie1
"The more we use our talents, the less we allow God to do what he does best"
"I never said that using our talents hampers God, and to be honest, I take offense to being misquoted like that"

These two statements seem to address the confusion. They seem to contradict each other. Perhaps your intention is different than what other people are hearing in these statements, because the first statement seems to say that using our talents does hamper God doing what he does best. Therefore using our talents becomes a negative. But from all you have said, what you are perhaps focusing on is not so much the use of our talents, but rather the relying on our talents and abilities instead of relying on God. God can work through our talents, but pride, feeling that it is our ability that matters, or doing things for our own glory does not allow God to work.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
The more we rely on our skills the less we rely on God working through us. We are relying on our skills rather than God's skills. The more I fill up on junk food, the less room I have for a healthy meal.

Our body will obsorb the junk food, even giving us a temperary energy boost. But the side effects is we burn out more quickly, and our body does not get the proper nutrients it needs for us to properly grow. Too much junk food can lead to health issues. Eating healthy meals means we put the proper nutrients in our body, giving us longer lasting energy without the crash.

Does our body use the sugar and other stuff in junk food? Yes. Is it benificial to our health? No. If we eat too much of it, or rely on junk food to fill us up, will we have room for a healthy meal? No, we would be too full from the junk food we keep consuming.

Junk food doesn't make healthy food more healthy, nor does it create a healthy appetite.

God can use anything for His benifit, but that doesn't make everything benificial to us.

If all you can take from everything I said and quoted from the Bible is that one quote I made, then you are missing the bigger picture.

It's easy to try and find fault with one of my comments, but what about all the scriptures I provided that supports what I said? How much are you willing to endure just to try and prove I am fallible? Yet, neither one of you have presented one correct piece of scripture. If I am wrong, then use scripture to correct me, as I have tried to do.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
"The more we use our talents, the less we allow God to do what he does best"
"I never said that using our talents hampers God, and to be honest, I take offense to being misquoted like that"

I said, "The MORE we use our talents" not, "using our talents". I am fallible, but God's Word is infallible. Can we end this now? I feel overwhelmed by both of you. I have said so much already in all my posts that not only explains what I believe, why I believe it, but even posted scriptures that taught me what I know. I used scripture to correct Mark's misunderstanding of a parable, and have posted several other scriptures. Please do me the same kindness.

I am always willing to be corrected, rebuked, etc. But, I don't take kind in repetive attempts to try and snare me in my own words.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
Danny, to be honest you are just misunderstanding. No one is disagreeing with you. I agree with your scripture shared so why would I quote more to try and disprove what I already agree with? Again though no one is trying to snare you, I'm trying to learn and make sense of what you are saying much like you yourself said you were trying to do.

So again maybe we should disagree to agree? ;-)
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Would performing a Seance illusion be considered "un-christian"? (2 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.37 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL