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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Would performing a Seance illusion be considered "un-christian"? (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dougini
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On 2014-01-01 21:05, tboehnlein wrote:
...Additionally I support what she states about Ouija boards and table tipping a bit of education can go a long way, do you folks really believe that the Ouija works any different than a pendulum?


Ask the Los Alamitos guy, who was slashed diagonally across his chest, and thrown across the room against the wall, after trying to take a Ouija Board away from his two kids. Don't believe it? Fine. That changes nothing. The man has permanent scars. He didn't believe either. He does NOW! Smile

Doug
Terry Holley
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On 2014-01-14 10:12, Dougini wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-01 21:05, tboehnlein wrote:
...Additionally I support what she states about Ouija boards and table tipping a bit of education can go a long way, do you folks really believe that the Ouija works any different than a pendulum?


Ask the Los Alamitos guy, who was slashed diagonally across his chest, and thrown across the room against the wall, after trying to take a Ouija Board away from his two kids. Don't believe it? Fine. That changes nothing. The man has permanent scars. He didn't believe either. He does NOW! Smile

Doug


Hi Doug,

I'm interested in the name of this man and any other pertinent information about him so that I can follow up on this and do some research. Where did you read/hear about it?

Thank you,

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Dougini
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Hi Terry! He was my sister's neighbor. I'll see what I can do...

Doug
Dougini
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While I'm waiting to hear back from my sister, I have a question:

They tell us the Universe is 13+ billion years old. They tell us light travels 186,000+ miles per second. We believe them. Then we're told that Ouija Boards are dangerous-OH! Gotta try that! Yeah, let's see some bad ol' spooks! Why? Halloween has us numbed to it? Boo! Ha ha haha! Right.

When you have been face to face with the unknown, you realize Ouija Boards are a tiny part of a much larger reality. However, the veil is very thin...

Doug
Mel Yoder
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On 2014-01-17 15:58, Dougini wrote:
While I'm waiting to hear back from my sister, I have a question:

They tell us the Universe is 13+ billion years old. They tell us light travels 186,000+ miles per second. We believe them. Then we're told that Ouija Boards are dangerous-OH! Gotta try that! Yeah, let's see some bad ol' spooks! Why? Halloween has us numbed to it? Boo! Ha ha haha! Right.

When you have been face to face with the unknown, you realize Ouija Boards are a tiny part of a much larger reality. However, the veil is very thin...

Doug


The same goes for the voodoo dolls.Ask my friend who had one fly over to a windowsill all on it's own.The devil has power,that's why we need to put on the whole armor and a have a greater power living in us.

Mel
Payne
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Strange, my Voodoo Dolls, Ouija Board, Crystal Ball and Tarot Cards all remain safely and firmly sitting on or in their various shelves and drawers. I even have one of the good Ouija Boards that was made in Salem Massachusetts. So it should just be crammed full of supernatural witchey powers.

But try as I might they all just sit there unmoving regardless of which dark entity I try to summon forth with them. Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Terry Holley
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On 2014-01-17 19:45, Payne wrote:
Strange, my Voodoo Dolls, Ouija Board, Crystal Ball and Tarot Cards all remain safely and firmly sitting on or in their various shelves and drawers. I even have one of the good Ouija Boards that was made in Salem Massachusetts. So it should just be crammed full of supernatural witchey powers.

But try as I might they all just sit there unmoving regardless of which dark entity I try to summon forth with them. Smile


Well, wait until you get a Magic 8 Ball.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Mel Yoder
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Quote:
On 2014-01-17 19:45, Payne wrote:
Strange, my Voodoo Dolls, Ouija Board, Crystal Ball and Tarot Cards all remain safely and firmly sitting on or in their various shelves and drawers. I even have one of the good Ouija Boards that was made in Salem Massachusetts. So it should just be crammed full of supernatural witchey powers.

But try as I might they all just sit there unmoving regardless of which dark entity I try to summon forth with them. Smile


Will I can tell you how to get them moving.Throw all the trash in a bonfire where they belong:)

Mel
Dougini
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On 2014-01-17 19:45, Payne wrote:
Strange, my Voodoo Dolls, Ouija Board, Crystal Ball and Tarot Cards all remain safely and firmly sitting on or in their various shelves and drawers...But try as I might they all just sit there unmoving regardless of which dark entity I try to summon forth with them. Smile


It's OK. Wait'll you hear from your "dark entity"! They don't always do what WE want...

Doug
Terry Holley
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On 2014-01-14 12:38, Dougini wrote:
Hi Terry! He was my sister's neighbor. I'll see what I can do...

Doug


Hi Doug,

Any info yet that you can pass on to me?

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Dougini
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My sister pretty much told me what I said. He's moved now, no idea where. She is a very religious Catholic and lectured me again about "dabbling in the occult". I guess there are just gonna be people that will put a Ouija Board to "the test". As Payne said, "But try as I might they all just sit there unmoving regardless of which dark entity I try to summon forth with them." Nothing might ever happen.

It only takes ONE TIME for it to happen and then it might be too late. Hey, it's OK to laugh at this and UFO's and ET's. Until it happens to you. It ain't funny no mo'. I personally take it VERY seriously.

Doug
Mike Ince
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Derren Brown's "Seance" was the most complained about televised program in British history. It seems that before the broadcast happened a record number of people, mostly Christians, contacted the network (Channel 4?) to complain. Almost no complaints were received AFTER the program because Derren clearly yet gently debunked the validity of the experience during the closing credits (and knowing his personality I'm convinced he had always intended to do so). I found the show to be hugely entertaining but then I've always been a fan.

I wish Derren would believe in legitimate supernatural occurrences, i.e. the miracles of Christ. He calls himself an ex-Christian. He's one of the most influential opinion-leaders in the UK. Please pray for his discernment, that God would graciously open his eyes. I pray the same for us. Extreme skepticism or extreme credulity have their pitfalls.

Christians are prone to believe things they should question. If they can't explain it, it must be the result of demonic power. That kind of thinking frustrates me. I wish we'd all understand that the Devil is a lion without teeth. We should not assume he has the power to move ouija planchettes by themselves, make paintings spin on walls or other such tales that I've heard from sensationalist preachers. "I know a guy who knows a guy who..." I want them to shut their stupid faces - in their "expertise" they feed superstition instead of extinguishing it. Would it be helpful to the propagation of our faith if most Christians believed in garden fairies? Would that help people take the gospel seriously? Neither do unsubstantiated, sensational stories of the demonic or the occult.

People hear crazy stories and think, "What other garbage do these airheads believe?" Like the "Heaven is Real" kid who tarnished his credibility when he talked about seeing rainbow-colored unicorns in Heaven. He may well have been to Heaven but based on some of his silly testimony I can't trust what he's saying.

I've derailed. The original post has been answered by many people. Sorry for ranting so long.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
Terry Holley
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On 2014-01-24 20:49, Dougini wrote:
My sister pretty much told me what I said. He's moved now, no idea where. She is a very religious Catholic and lectured me again about "dabbling in the occult". I guess there are just gonna be people that will put a Ouija Board to "the test". As Payne said, "But try as I might they all just sit there unmoving regardless of which dark entity I try to summon forth with them." Nothing might ever happen.

It only takes ONE TIME for it to happen and then it might be too late. Hey, it's OK to laugh at this and UFO's and ET's. Until it happens to you. It ain't funny no mo'. I personally take it VERY seriously.

Doug


Hi Doug,

I've spent years attempting to validate in some way the stories that are circulating about levitations, Ouija boards. metal benders, etc., but have contunually run into the same kind of responses that you have given. It is like trying to "nail jello on a wall." Lots of stories but nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

When I worked with Andre' Kole, Andre' offered a $25,000 award to anyone who would perform an act of true paranormal power in his presence, specifically, but not limited to, levitation or walking on water. To my understanding that offer is still open and has been joined by James Randi's $1,000,000 offer for the same type of act.

As I tell people, "I cannot argue your experience, but I can argue your interpretation of your experience." So I continue on attempting to find validity to the stories.

I know this sounds like a shameless plug, but I do recommend the book I coauthored with Andre' if you haven't read it yet.

Best,

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
wwhokie1
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"As my pappy use to say, 'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time and that's pretty good odds.'"

quote from Brett Maverick, from the tv show "Maverick".
Dougini
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On 2014-01-24 22:39, Mike Ince wrote:
Would it be helpful to the propagation of our faith if most Christians believed in garden fairies? Would that help people take the gospel seriously? Neither do unsubstantiated, sensational stories of the demonic or the occult.

People hear crazy stories and think, "What other garbage do these airheads believe?"


Yeah. I'm one of those "airheads". LOL. Unsubstantiated, sensational stories of the demonic or the occult? Honestly? I don't have a clue. Demonic? Occult? Satan? Who knows...we are assuming these things. I don't know what happened out in CA...my sister does. She saw the guy's stitches! His wife & kids SAW him thrown across the room into a wall.

Are they all liars? It is arrogant to assume we know what IS and ISN'T true. I don't know. I didn't see it. If I told you the things I HAVE seen first hand...you'd probably throw me outta here! If people don't want to hear it, they should not ask...

Doug
Mike Ince
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Doug, I haven't read the post you're referring to. I read the first couple of pages of this thread. Hope you didn't think I was writing specifically about anything you posted. I'll read it after I've written this post.

When we don't know for sure whether an anecdote is true, I ask why bother spreading it? Sometimes people spread rumors and stories they believe to be true that aren't. I wouldn't call those people liars. I wouldn't call what they do helpful, either. Those stories are often sidelines; they are things that shouldn't take priority over more important matters. We can say with certainty that Christ is risen from the dead. We can't treat all supernatural claims with the same vehemence because the evidence just isn't as pervasive. Like Doug wrote, we often just don't know.

Anecdotes might make interesting conversation but I'd rather stick to what John said in his first epistle concerning ""What WE have seen,what we have touched..." Keeping the gospel the message of first importance. We agree on that, I think.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
Terry Holley
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Proverbs 18:17 - "The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him."

I have found this to be so true in so many instances while I was researching for my book. I still find it to be true.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Dougini
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On 2014-01-26 19:53, Mike Ince wrote:
Doug, I haven't read the post you're referring to. I read the first couple of pages of this thread. Hope you didn't think I was writing specifically about anything you posted.


No, Mike. I just was stating how I have been labelled for relaying a story, whether true or not. We really cannot be sure about what is happening. I have seen and experienced things first-hand that convince me all is NOT as it seems.

UFO's, for example. You're either a nutcase or yes, you HAVE been abducted. But no ANSWERS! Who these beings are, where they come from...nothing. Ghosts. Yes, SOMETHING is happening, but we don't have a CLUE what! Voodoo. I have been a victim. It's real. What IS it? Not clue ONE!

Until we have a better handle on it, I don't laugh and I don't play around with it.

Doug
Mel Yoder
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I will tell this story on levitation for what it's worth.My missionary friend was over in Haiti.Said from time to time the witch doctors and their men come together on a road and have an all out fight untell the last one standing takes over the territory.While this is going on,they will let absalooty no trafic come through.There was this man going back and forth across the road stopping traffic and his feet never hit the ground.

Mel
Terry Holley
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Interesting story about supposed demoniztion in Gary, IN, that I hope we can get to the bottom of!

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014/......4892553/
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
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