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x-treem Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Dear Ian,
There are only two methods that I am aware of yours and Joe Fox's. I was unaware that there were proper names for either. Not wanting to tip the method OR have you bombarded by numerous people asking how to do the escape even though 99% do not own a pair of Saf-Lok's let alone seen a pair I left it as I did and continued my conversation with David via PM. I have in the past on this very message board and section already mentioned the "inventor(s)" of the trick, for those who have not read it please look here http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......8&18 since I was sure David has read the thread I saw no reason to name them again, nor do I want people asking who Joe Fox is, he is a private individual and I respect that, the last time I posted his name I had numerous email from people wondering who he was. You are also well aware that when someone has the cuff in hand I send them along to you, as I did with the gent from the UK who posts here as "Scott," that was roughly a year ago. If you have a problem with something you may email me and I'll be happy to make a change or retraction (which I have done in the past for you) insted of airing this all out on the board. Take Care, Shawn On a side note there is a third old fashioned method that is explained by Norm Bigelow in Cord Vol. 3 since I have to name names. I have gone around with you on this same topic in the past and given you the same explaination. I have not now or, to the best of my knowledge, ever stolen anyones "thunder." Nor do I have any plans to in the future. Shawn
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
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KingStardog Inner circle 2134 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-01 07:57, Stuart Burrell wrote: Whoa, hold on there Stuart. I am not an expert in escapes and have performed them in public only very infrequently. I have about a year of actual escape experiences. I'm just a much faster study than most. My 'skills' are in metal fabrication. I worked to produce a hundred or so cranberry picking machines for the furford picker company and then several other production runs of various item from brush and tree hogs to oil skimmers, and the very old star clutch. All from raw materials. Locks and other mechanisms just happen to fall into my realm of understanding. In respect to those fine Artists named, I don't belong in that list. A least till I make world record status.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
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The Donster Inner circle 4817 Posts |
I think Stuart was Trying to Compliment Evreyone. here Don,
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x-treem Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Stuart, Mike,
I am not an expert, I just use escapology as an excuse to get out of house work. There is something that neither of you looked at, a catagory I put both of you into. That catagory is professional. Sure you don't make a living at escapology which would make you a professional in the true sense of the word however think about this: An expert is good at what they do, a professional does not let their ego get in the way of what they are good at doing. I feel this art is over filled with egos that are larger than their owners britches. Was Houdini's ego larger than his britches, you bet, course he's dead now. An ego can only get you so far. Yet he cared, he loved his mother, his wife, he loved children, yet never had any of his own so I count that as professional. There is a serious lack of a willingness to help in our art, that is why I decided to lecture, write and create escapes for others, to teach the newbie as well as share with the "pros." Have I ever tipped a "pro secret" to a beginner? I do not know, I don't think so. Do I expect them to tell me what they know before I'm willing to help, never! Have I ever treated a pro like a snot nosed kid just because I don't know who they are, I hope not. I can not speak for myself as my view of me may be different from others but I can speak about others out there. Stuart, two years ago you wanted to give up on this art, feeling like a failure, now look at you, 2 world records, a book that is highly praised and some unique inventions. Had those people who helped and truly believed in you told you that you were a beginner and not worth their time, would you be here among us today, chatting about the latest escapes? Mike, when was the last time you told someone, sorry, I don't know you I have no time to answer your questions, or the last time you were to busy to give them a warning about something? I've never seen it. You guys are professionals, you don't care about your name being out there bigger than the lights in the sky, with the "me, myself and I," attitude. To me that makes both of you bigger than life. No matter how many time people attack me, I won't give up because there are things that I believe in and friends who support me, such as Steve Santini, Stuart Burrell and David Straitjacket and I hope each and every one of you out there have that as well. Shawn
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
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Riley Special user Swansea UK 955 Posts |
Hello Shawn
Well said. Have PM'd Stuart and The Donster with some info. As I don't know either of them that well, I'm either telling them what they already know, or else giving them something useful. If we all take what knowledge we have with us to the grave - the art we all love will be finished within a couple of generations! (I threw away my soapbox years ago and had to borrow one to write the above) Strange feeling! Speaking for myself I value the opinions of all you clever people out there. Keep it coming. Wishing you ALL a successful, interesting and prosperous NEW YEAR! Riley |
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The Donster Inner circle 4817 Posts |
Riley thank you Very Much This Board Needs More Helpful People to encourage give us ideas etc. Don,
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Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
Having a back seat to this thread I feel that the mechanics in escapology although important should take third place to the entertainment. From the spectators view an escapologist is a person who escapes from things, the how is immaterial. Also from the escapologists point of view I feel that the easy way is always the best way (We all know the easy way to get out of any restraint, don`t we !).To escape in an entertaining way is entertainment, being able to escape useing ******** is a novelty to the escapist only. So in my humble opinion what are we trying to achieve, inward satisfaction of being able to do escapes from a technical point of view or presenting the illusion that we are larger than life entertainers who can escape reality and so give pleasure to our paying public !
Where do we go to learn stage craft, how often is there a post on this board relating to the entertainment presentation of an escapology act ! Maybe that is why those who have made their living escapeing from things are reluctant to pass on their wisdom and knowledge for such insight is the true answer to a succesful escape. Sorry to ramble I have still got a heavy head !!! |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
You could always go with the classic Houdini cuffs. Those were brittish and you can find them pretty easily. Doesn't take long to learn them.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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x-treem Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Hello Kondini,
I was a magician for many years before going the escape route and with most magic I found myself, as many do, using others patter and routines. I found "myself" in escapology. However my "character" is not suited to all people. I believe you can force your way through someone elses magic trick and patter. But have seen the same fact bomb time after time in escapes I would hate to share a killer presentation with someone only to have it bomb for them. I have only one presentation and patter effect on the market which has gotten mixed reviews and here is why. What is funny or understandable to Americans does not always transition well over seas, this is the reason I give patter/ routine suggestions and let someone build their own routine off of it. Steve Santini will shortly be releasing a few small presentation manuscripts, if it garners good reviews, I'm sure others may start writing them as well. I guess all in all, I'm not you and your not me, and that is what makes us unique. Take Care of yourself Kondini, Shawn
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
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SANTINI Loyal user SANTINI 293 Posts |
Hello all,
I was not going to "throw my 2 cents worth" into this disucssion but after watching the way it has progressed, I felt it only fitting to do so. Firstly, I would like to start by saying that of all the people I know in the "escapology world", Shawn Ness is one of the kindest and most generous people around when it comes to the sharing of information, lending of moral support to others, and just generally fostering growth and interest in the art among many out there, both beginner and pro alike. I consider it in poor taste for someone like Shawn to be berrated in public for a percived ommission re: who invented what by name, etc. On the contrary, people like Shawn should be praised for thier true love of the art and thier willingness to rise to the occassion to assist and help those who may need such help. Now, on to the comments made by Kondini. No truer words have ever been spoken! What many in this "art" often overlook is that escapists first need to learn to become entertainers above all else. While there may be people out there like Ian (and even myself) who make t------d locks, cuffs and the like and there may be suppliers like the Cannons (and the EARL) out there who offer such props to the trade, such locks, cuffs, sweat boxes, or whatever do not ammount to a hill of beans unless the person purchasing them knows how to entertain with them in an effective way. And this is where the art is sadly lacking. People getting into escapes are being lured into what I call "the magic store trap". By this I mean that they are being offered mass produced and marketed escape products just like one is offered illusions in a magic store but they are being offered precious little in the way of material on how to actually perform or entertain with escapes. True, I myself have authored published works which can certainly be considered on the technical side but I also have written articles for the TEN mag Ian used to publish and also more recently Escapemasters mag which deal with working with the methodology so that you can actually do something with it. A million magicians can do a trick but only a scant handfull can entertain anyone with it. I believe that if one is to take on the title "escape artist" one should be aware of the word "artist" in the title. In the context of performing, the word artist should refer to one who presents escapes in an artfull way. And by "artfull", I mean one who makes the performance of such miracles an art form in the eyes of the specatators. This means to entertain the masses folks! All the t--------d locks, reproduction of famous handcuffs and restraints in the world, and other clever gimmicks will not teach you how to entertain and be liked and appreicated by an audience. The way such products and methodology is being promoted and mass marketed of late can only serve to create a small army of what should be called "escape demonstrators", each doing the exact same things, with the exact same products, and doing them only as a demonstration they can accomplish. This is boring, this is tiresome, and this type of thing may be why the art as percieved by many spectators has not changed or evolved much in the past 100 years in the way of entertainment value. A clear case in point is the strait jacket. Once a valued piece of equipment in every escapists arsenal, now the jacket is done by so many people, basically the same way, that it has become something of a joke. Let's be real here folks; who in your audience actually believes you are not going to get out of your jacket? Answer: No one! Why? They have seen it a million times. However, that being said, there are artists who manage to breath new life into the old jacket escape by adding showmanship or a new twist to it that makes the presentation all thier own and carries it over to the audience who end up appreciating it and how it can be used as a vehicle to entertain them. This is what it is all about. As for why the "pros" do not share rountines, ideas, etc, it may be that many of the so called "pros" are not only worried about sharing functional routines because this is what makes them unique and keeps them working but it also may be that many of these same pros have nothing new to offer at all and are afraid of being seen for what they really are. I have seen a pile of pros and "experts" but only a rare one can actually entertain a crowd and stand out a truly unique. The rest are just "spinning the wheels" and doing the same old stuff the same old way. IMHO, imagination, or specifically lack of it, is why things get done the same way over and over again. Once there were magic shops who sold tons of the same tricks with the same patter which people bought and did the same old tired way and now there are escape product suppliers doing the same thing. It is high time that those in the art learned it's most valuable secrets. Namely, to try and be creative and work outside the box, and that all the cool products in the world are not going to teach you how to please the people. They are really all that matters. After all, they pay your bills! In closing, I am working on a series of manuscripts which deal with performing as opposed to just techniques so I am trying to make my own contribution to this art which very much needs such contributions. Shawn Ness is trying to do the same. For the sake of evolution in escapology, it is time to stop the petty fights over specific techniques and let the people who have performed and who are willing to try and help out and teach others do so without bickering. After all, it is these sorts of people who are going to take escapes into the next century. Not just the mechanics who build the props. Regards, Steve Santini |
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JamesCheung Loyal user London, UK 214 Posts |
Steve,
Congratulations on the successful escape you pulled off last month. You are one awe inspiring guy and long may you continue to amaze and astound us with your skills. As a mentalist who wants to add a little extra to his act this board has proven to be both informative and inspirational. To have access to the collected wisdom of all of you who have been doing this stuff for years is invaluable and humbling. As a student of martial arts for many years I will be the first to admit that the more you learn the more you realise how little you know and this applies as much to the 'art' of escapology as it does to the martial arts. I have seen organised martial arts being destroyed by internal politics and individual egos and I would hate to see this community suffer the same fate. Luckily from what I've seen everybody here is respectful, friendly, co-operative and have been more than willing to help out newbies or seasoned pros alike and that for me is the mark of a true community. Long may this spirit continue. Happy 2004 guys! |
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Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
Hi Steve, you have summed up my thoughts to a T, thanks Ken.
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The Donster Inner circle 4817 Posts |
I Agree with Steve on what he typed. if I ever got a Magic Trick the First Thing I'll do is try and change the Patter. or try a whole diffrent way of presenting it I'm no Pro. but I do Like doing Escapes Better then a Magic Trick. I am working on a BackPack Escape but the Hardest part is how to present it and coming up with some decent Patter for it. Don, P.S. the more diffrent ideas someone comes up with the less bored your audience will be. the more you can entertain your audience and keep them spellbound/wondering what will happen next the more they will enjoy the show or the presentation. Don,
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Stuart Burrell Veteran user England 385 Posts |
Very quickly, to David, sorry for getting your name wrong.
As for the comments of Kondini and Mr Santini, I can not add anything other than I agree 100%. I hope that when I paid the people I admire and respect the complement earlier I did not embarrass them or offend anyone I omitted. If so then that was not my intention and I can only appologise. James, building blocks by Luke Jermay is very good, I have seen him live (and lost to him 4 times in a row in competitions) so I can give his work a big thumbs up...he did the pulse stopping trick on me where he convinces a member of the audience to take my pulse and then makes them think my heart has stopped....he's so good when I took my pulse at the same time I thought it'd stopped! Happy new year, thanks for the kind words and best wishes to all. Stuart |
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Riley Special user Swansea UK 955 Posts |
Dear All:
Great input and who can argue with Messrs Santini and Kondini? Lets hope we will all continue to help one another during this New Year, and leave the fighting to soldiers! This is a big planet and there’s room for all of us. Who knows how much Houdini was a debtor to men like Charles Courtney and James Collins? We must respect and value the people who can provide us with the tools of our trade. On the other hand – we have to be able to perform with those tools properly and in a way that earns the £ / $. Only one thing I would add, we can be skilled, we can be entertaining, but our audience must also LIKE us!! Regards to all Riley |
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x-treem Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Stuart,
You in NO WAY offened me. I just thought my response was funny. See, humor does not cross oceans well as I stated before. I think most would agree that it would be nearly impossible for Stuart to offend anyone, he is truly a one of a kind person. Best, Shawn
A direct from text adaptation : The Strange Case Of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde Starring Mickey Rooney in his final role.
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Stuart Burrell Veteran user England 385 Posts |
Thanks Shawn, I just wanted to be sure that's all.
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DavidEscapes Inner circle I'm Special! 1003 Posts |
Stuart, I wasn't offended by being called Dave, everybody does it. It is a sore point, but I am so used to everyone doing it that I wouldn't get offended by it!
David
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.
My Website Add me on facebook |
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Riley Special user Swansea UK 955 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-03 12:54, x-treem wrote: It does. I just want to see the Customs Tax before I laugh.. Riley |
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