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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Statement of Faith Question (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Shagbeard
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For me as an Orthodox Christian that expresses in Germanic Tolkien way lol the Nicene Creed and seeing the Creator as ultimate, Alfather is how I hold my faith. Regardless of how the different denominations want to word it, I hold the creed.
Magic speaks to the child in all of us. No matter how sophisticated we become, there's still a part of us who wants to believe in an alternative reality, where we can defy the laws of nature.
Crownhart
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I'm going to look into the FCM, I'm not a member yet but it sounds good. Does anyone have problem with some of the SAM wording in their writings and induction into the offices? Here in Tucson they do a bunch of readings with chains, linking rings, cups and balls while reciting kabbalah. Just curios, it seems dark to me. Any thought?
SinCIRCUSly,

Michael C. Crownhart
OzJosh
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Oh really.
wow guys.

I take my magic seriously and preform it like I just done real magic, for the sake of effect.
but also because I am really serious about magic as a gift from God and something that he put into my life.

therefore by that reasoning, this Gift comes with a code of ethics to not tell anyone about what we do and how it's done.
it's something we all take seriously and we don't go telling people how effects are done because of this.

it is also our job to expose those who seek to gain money in the new age movement by using mentalism and other tricks to con people out of hard earned cash for the sake of telling their fortune or to speak to a dead loved one (or pet).

sometimes people take it to far, I would personally seek to expose those who use our art as a way of conning people.
Magic is the ability to lie and people to love you for it and want you to lie to them again and again and again
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OzJosh
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Oh yeah, slightly side tracked.

if you feel that they are putting magic above God, don't be apart of them.
it's a fellowship from my understanding and it's about growing each other in Christ and magic
Magic is the ability to lie and people to love you for it and want you to lie to them again and again and again
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themagiciansapprentice
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, Crownhart wrote:
I'm going to look into the FCM, I'm not a member yet but it sounds good. Does anyone have problem with some of the SAM wording in their writings and induction into the offices? Here in Tucson they do a bunch of readings with chains, linking rings, cups and balls while reciting kabbalah. Just curios, it seems dark to me. Any thought?


The FCM is a light-hearted collection of magicians who are Christians - we share a lot of our ideas and collectively improve our own routines and Church Services we take part in

we are trustworthy, loyal and dependable (Christian)

some of us also use our entertainment gifts (Magician et al) to spread the Gospel (Christian) - but not every-one

some are Ordained but many others are members of the layety

there is nothing dark about the FCM
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, Crownhart wrote:
I'm going to look into the FCM, I'm not a member yet but it sounds good. Does anyone have problem with some of the SAM wording in their writings and induction into the offices? Here in Tucson they do a bunch of readings with chains, linking rings, cups and balls while reciting kabbalah. Just curios, it seems dark to me. Any thought?

The FCM has no rituals. The SAM does, but each Assembly does certain things as they see fit.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
stringsleights
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Concerning Danny Kazam's conflict with the code of ethics within the FCM's Statement of Faith wherein he writes,"Although I do not go around revealing how magic tricks are done, I wouldn't hestitate to do so to prove to someone who thinks it supernatural that it isn't."

This is the part that bothers me, because there are other ways to go about making the point that what is done is by a natural means rather than unethically exposing the art. For example, one may perform the paper balls over the head routine where the audience is in on the "trickery". This is a far better thing to do than reveal the method of having just appeared to predict the future, or the method to some other trick or apparatus. Maintaining the "code of ethics/magician's code" is not elevating the art over one's allegiance to Christ, but rather it is maintaining integrity and a good witness. Enraging a performer by revealing a secret that is earning him a living is very, very bad form.
Danny Kazam
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Maintaining some magician code is not my high priority. The souls and lives of other people are more important to me. Let nothing stand in between you and the calling God has given you. Make no compromises to your faith. If I am shamed for exposing a trick for the sake of God's Kingdom by men, then albeit. I'd rather please God than men.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Donald Dunphy
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If you are revealing a trick just to appease another person, then really aren't you STILL trying to please man? Just a different man.

Can't the person who sees supernatural evil in magic tricks and illusions be reasoned with in another way? And if you expose it as a trick, would that person admit their sin of falsely accusing others of witchcraft / alliances with evil spirits (bearing false witness, etc.)?

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Danny Kazam
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Why assume it would be my first course of action? Like I said, I don't go around revealing or exposing magic tricks, but I would not hesitate if it meant freeing someone from believing in false superstitions. I see very little ethics and morals in some parts of the magic community for me to think I have to actually abide by some set of rules all magicians need to follow.

Take it for what it's worth but that's where I stand. And, no Donald. It doesn't mean I would be pleasing man. It means that I am more willing to do everything I can for God's glory, not for some art or form of entertainment.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Donald Dunphy
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Quote:
On Feb 26, 2015, Danny Kazam wrote:
Like I said, I don't go around revealing or exposing magic tricks, but I would not hesitate if it meant freeing someone from believing in false superstitions.


My experience with some people, is that by revealing or exposing a magic trick, it would NOT "free them from believing in false superstitions."

They often have the opinion that, "OK, you might have proved me wrong about this ONE thing. But that doesn't speak into all of these other things."

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
drumorgan
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Can't we just tell them that if they have enough "faith" (and give a love offering of any amount) they can "move this card" to the top of the deck? It works for Benny Hinn. Smile
Danny Kazam
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That's the same experience I have sometimes when talking to people about Jesus. Should I stop witnessing? We all have different experiences, but I don't try to convince anyone. I leave conviction to God. Only He can change a heart. Jesus didn't run after the rich man when the rich man walked away. Jesus didn't shout at him to come back. Jesus answered his questions, was not satisfied with the answers and walked away.

If I ever get approached by a superstitious Christian who thinks I have supernatural powers, I would make the effort to prove I do not have superstitious powers even if that means revealing a trick. My loyalty is to God, not to man.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
OzJosh
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Quote:
On Feb 26, 2015, Danny Kazam wrote:
Maintaining some magician code is not my high priority. The souls and lives of other people are more important to me. Let nothing stand in between you and the calling God has given you. Make no compromises to your faith. If I am shamed for exposing a trick for the sake of God's Kingdom by men, then albeit. I'd rather please God than men.


I get what you are saying, but also understanding the code of conduct as magicians in our art and not exposing what we do is a key thing.
as it's something that I will never do and I took an oath to keep what I do secret from those who do not do our art of entertainment.

it's not about keeping that above souls, it's about making sure we don't expose the art.

as the greatest thing in my life is to lead people to a place that they have the choice to have God in their life.
that's the biggest calling we have, but that doesn't require us giving away anything about what we do.
as for me, it's a honour to serve God and to fellowship with Gods people as well as my fellow Magicians.

so I get what you are saying from your point of view.

I guess, each person will see and understand things as they see it
Magic is the ability to lie and people to love you for it and want you to lie to them again and again and again
www.redtopbox.com.au
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OzJosh
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Another thing, when I have prayed for people and had the power of God come into their situation, I have seen God use me to heal blind, deff and countless other things.

so there is the art of entertainment and the raw Power of God.

God comes to the party when you ask him to, cards are just double lifted for a trick.

:)

God is Great
Magic is the ability to lie and people to love you for it and want you to lie to them again and again and again
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Danny Kazam
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The magician code is subjective as I have found in my years in the industry. "Don't reveal the tricks" yet many top named magicians reveal tricks all the time. If it wasn't for a magician showing me how a trick was done I would have never started learning magic.

My personal reasons for not revealing the tricks I perform is because my audience is there because they like the mystery of magic. By telling people how I do my tricks I sabbatage my own performance. (Unless I'm the Masked Magician) Most people actually enjoy being fooled. The look on their faces show how happy and amazed they are. If I followed up by showing them how it was done, I take all that away from them.

The "art" of magic is also subjective, just like all art is.

God's Word is not subjective, and I submitt to His authority. That's why I have no issue showing someone how the trick was done if they actually believe it was done supernaturally. If they walk away still convinced it was through supernatural powers then albeit. I have at least made the effort to show the truth to a lost brother. Some won't need such convincing, and I have yet to meet someone who thinks I have actual powers.

This is my personal take on it.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
OzJosh
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Well said danny
Magic is the ability to lie and people to love you for it and want you to lie to them again and again and again
www.redtopbox.com.au
^^^^^ has some really cool things on it
MSaber
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I'm with Shagbeard, y'all should look into Orthodox Christianity!
John Cowne
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Quote:
On Feb 26, 2015, Donald Dunphy wrote:
If you are revealing a trick just to appease another person, then really aren't you STILL trying to please man? Just a different man.

Can't the person who sees supernatural evil in magic tricks and illusions be reasoned with in another way? And if you expose it as a trick, would that person admit their sin of falsely accusing others of witchcraft / alliances with evil spirits (bearing false witness, etc.)?

- Donald
There’s some good application of biblical principles there, Donald. Very helpful for me.
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