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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Healthy eating adds $2K a year to family grocery bill (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ShirtlessKirk
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On 2013-12-09 17:08, mastermindreader wrote:
Whatever. I know plenty of vegans who encountered extremely serious health issues. Body builders too. But that's cool- I'll live my lies and you can live yours.

Just don't force them on the poor.


The poor aren't being forced to buy or not buy anything. Don't force taxpayers to pay for others lifestyle choices by subsidizing "healthy" foods and taxing "unhealthy" foods as was suggested by those who did the study. No one has a "right" to have their dietary choices paid for by the taxpayers. The government and taxpayers have no responsibility to help pay for others to eat as they want not as they need. And I seriously doubt you know any vegans that suffered health issues because they were vegan, I call ******** on that, I've heard that urban legend before. Not one vegetarian/vegan I have ever known has suffered any health issues. It doesn't matter anyway if you did know someone who suffered health issues because of their veggie diet, there is no scientific validation that vegans/vegetarians suffer health problems with any greater frequency than meat eaters as a result of their diet, and that is a fact.
General_Magician
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Isn't eating fish important and isn't the most potent and beneficial long chained Omega 3 fatty acids found in fish, and not plants? I would think being a vegan would cut yourself out of valuable nutrients such as long chained Omega 3 fatty acids that your body needs and can't get anywhere else, but a meat source such as fish. The plant sources offer the short chained Omega 3 Fatty acids which are not as beneficial as those found in fish.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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Dannydoyle
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I am still wondering what brought up your rant against me.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ShirtlessKirk
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On 2013-12-09 18:07, critter wrote:
The Dalai Lama certainly feels that meat is necessary for his health:
http://samvidbeauty.com/2013/02/a-lesson......-eating/


I don't respect the dalai lama.
General_Magician
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On 2013-12-09 18:55, Dannydoyle wrote:
I am still wondering what brought up your rant against me.


First off, it wasn't a "rant." Nor was it something "against" you. It was just a comment where I recalled my support for taxing the top 1% and then you started quoting Karl Marx to me "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" in a previous thread some time back. But I am not a Marxist and one of the true Marxists here on the forum certainly supports my position that I by no means a Marxist. So why would you quote Karl Marx to me then when clearly I am not one. Third, I explained my reason why I made the comment so your question has already been answered, it's up to you to read the response. If you are seeking something more than having your question already being sufficiently answered, then their is nothing else more I can say regarding that specific comment. Don't overthink this Danny. Don't make this harder than what it really is.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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ShirtlessKirk
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On 2013-12-09 18:51, General_Magician wrote:
Isn't eating fish important and isn't the most potent and beneficial long chained Omega 3 fatty acids found in fish, and not plants? I would think being a vegan would cut yourself out of valuable nutrients such as long chained Omega 3 fatty acids that your body needs and can't get anywhere else, but a meat source such as fish. The plant sources offer the short chained Omega 3 Fatty acids which are not as beneficial as those found in fish.


Its in seaweed in small amounts and eggs (not vegan of course but ok for vegetarians). The body can also convert ALA into EPA and there are many sources plant sources of ALA. Plus anyways vegetarians already have about a 24% lower risk of heart disease.


http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/516s.abstract
critter
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On 2013-12-09 18:55, ShirtlessKirk wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-09 18:07, critter wrote:
The Dalai Lama certainly feels that meat is necessary for his health:
http://samvidbeauty.com/2013/02/a-lesson......-eating/


I don't respect the dalai lama.


Given the amount of respect you've shown to others, I find that shocking.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
General_Magician
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Its in seaweed in small amounts and eggs (not vegan of course but ok for vegetarians). The body can also convert ALA into EPA and there are many sources plant sources of ALA. Plus anyways vegetarians already have about a 24% lower risk of heart disease.


Yeah, but you have to consume ALOT of ALA in order for your body to get enough ALA to convert it to the optimal EPA and that huge consumption of ALA just to be able to get enough for body to convert to the optimal EPA could have some harmful side effects. Plus a lot of the Omega 3s found in plants are short chained Omega 3s which aren't as beneficial as the long chained Omega 3s found in fish. Your much better off and safer getting your Omega 3s from screened fish which do not have any mercury levels. Humans are meant to eat meat and meat is an important source of nutrition.

I personally stay away from red meat (I like red meat but as part of my diet I trying to stay away from foods with a lot of saturated fats), but eat ground turkey and baked skinless, boneless chicken tenderloin (topped with my hot wing sauce). I generally take the fish oil supplement "Salmon Oil Plus" which is in my judgement an excellent supplement to get your Omega 3s (take about 6 a day which gives me a little over 2,000mg of Omega 3s a day along with a one a day men's multivitamin with various vegetables mixed in with it in the pill form). I have also been cooking and eating frozen vegetables like broccoli, green beans, peas, corn and ect. I think the right kind of meat is an important part of a good healthy diet and can also reduce the risk of heart disease as well.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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ShirtlessKirk
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On 2013-12-09 19:12, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-09 18:55, ShirtlessKirk wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-09 18:07, critter wrote:
The Dalai Lama certainly feels that meat is necessary for his health:
http://samvidbeauty.com/2013/02/a-lesson......-eating/


I don't respect the dalai lama.


Given the amount of respect you've shown to others, I find that shocking.



He's a fake pacifist (he used CIA money to fund gorillas to fight the chinese while claiming to be a pacifist). Plus I'm not really sure I could in good conscious support the head of any religious order.
ShirtlessKirk
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On 2013-12-09 19:21, General_Magician wrote:
Quote:
Its in seaweed in small amounts and eggs (not vegan of course but ok for vegetarians). The body can also convert ALA into EPA and there are many sources plant sources of ALA. Plus anyways vegetarians already have about a 24% lower risk of heart disease.


Yeah, but you have to consume ALOT of ALA in order for your body to get enough ALA to convert it to the optimal EPA and that huge consumption of ALA just to be able to get enough for body to convert to the optimal EPA could have some harmful side effects. Plus a lot of the Omega 3s found in plants are short chained Omega 3s which aren't as beneficial as the long chained Omega 3s found in fish. Your much better off and safer getting your Omega 3s from screened fish which do not have any mercury levels. Humans are meant to eat meat and meat is an important source of nutrition.



I personally stay away from red meat (I like red meat but as part of my diet I trying to stay away from foods with a lot of saturated fats), but eat ground turkey and baked skinless, boneless chicken tenderloin (topped with my hot wing sauce). I generally take the fish oil supplement "Salmon Oil Plus" which is in my judgement an excellent supplement to get your Omega 3s (take about 6 a day which gives me a little over 2,000mg of Omega 3s a day along with a one a day men's multivitamin with various vegetables mixed in with it in the pill form). I have also been cooking and eating frozen vegetables like broccoli, green beans, peas, corn and ect. I think the right kind of meat is an important part of a good healthy diet and can also reduce the risk of heart disease as well.




No doubt fish is a great source of EPA, just saying you won't die if you leave it and other meats out of your diet. I just disagree with the conclusions of the people who did the study which suggested subsidizing healthy foods and taxing unhealthy foods to offset the price difference (which wasn't that great anyhow). Hell I don't even believe in taxing cigarettes and they kill more people than junk food does.
General_Magician
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I sometimes think the wealthy are just opposed to ALL taxes and every single kind of tax. After all, they want to keep every penny for themselves. We just finance our government strictly with debt and taxing the poor. I know that the rich pay more in taxes dollarwise currently. But sometimes I think if they had things their way, they wouldn't pay a dime in taxes at all, on anything or for anything. Their method of helping the poor would be to give to "charity." I am not so sure these "charities" really help the poor though.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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ShirtlessKirk
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I'm not even close to being rich and I don't believe they should pay any more than they already do. They pay most of the taxes already.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/


Why wouldn't you want to keep the money you earn. If you earn it it's yours. Taxing anymore than is necessary is theft and downright evil.
General_Magician
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On 2013-12-09 20:14, ShirtlessKirk wrote:
I'm not even close to being rich and I don't believe they should pay any more than they already do. They pay most of the taxes already.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/


Why wouldn't you want to keep the money you earn. If you earn it it's yours. Taxing anymore than is necessary is theft and downright evil.



I already knew the rich pay most of the taxes. My personal opinion though is that the top 1% should pay more. I personally don't mind paying taxes so long as I am not overtaxed, but everybody's view on what exactly constitutes over taxation is different.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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critter
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I'm not an economist so I don't know how feasible it is but I've entertained the thought of taxing business owners heavily for things like outsourcing. Make it more expensive for them to destroy American jobs than to create them, which takes away the incentive to put people on the streets for profits. Because you can't call yourself the "productive class" when you're committing destructive acts.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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When I read on this thread that the Dalai Lama funded "gorillas" [sic] to fight the Chinese I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! Pretty much said all I needed to know.
critter
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I'm fairly familiar with the situation because I have a monk friend who is part of the Dalai Lama's exiled parliament. There were those who chose to pick up guns and fight with the Dalai Lama's brother and there were those who fled peacefully. My friend considered fighting. He was angry. But, in the end, he chose the peaceful route with the Dalai Lama.

However, nobody's perfect and some arguments aren't worth having.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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Dannydoyle
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On 2013-12-09 22:35, mastermindreader wrote:
When I read on this thread that the Dalai Lama funded "gorillas" [sic] to fight the Chinese I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! Pretty much said all I needed to know.



You may have noticed me giving up a while ago.

When someone wants to reference way old threads and food is a luxury where do you go with that?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ShirtlessKirk
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On 2013-12-09 22:35, mastermindreader wrote:
When I read on this thread that the Dalai Lama funded "gorillas" [sic] to fight the Chinese I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! Pretty much said all I needed to know.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program

The CIA did the funding. I didn't bring up the Dalai Lama, who's cause I don't give a rats ass about. Rule by the monks was no better than what the chinese have done.
ShirtlessKirk
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On 2013-12-09 22:52, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-09 22:35, mastermindreader wrote:
When I read on this thread that the Dalai Lama funded "gorillas" [sic] to fight the Chinese I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! Pretty much said all I needed to know.



You may have noticed me giving up a while ago.





When someone wants to reference way old threads and food is a luxury where do you go with that?





Never said food was a luxery, I said meat was which no one can prove is 100 percent necessary. It's not relevant if it is or not, it still doesn't need to be subsidized by the government. Never thought a "conservative" would support government subsidies of any sort which was what study called for to cover increased costs. More involvement of the state in the marketplace is never the solution.
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