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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 11:23, mastermindreader wrote: It's also interesting that the pro-pot crowd hasn't chosen to argue with Asimov (as quoted by Ed), either. Granted, Asimov was talking specifically of LSD, but Ed extrapolated from it (and somewhat fairly, IMO, with respect to the general use of the word "chemicals").
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-28 20:16, tommy wrote: Not very clear... but very deep.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"Granted, Asimov was talking specifically of LSD,"
The reason is that, as you say, Asimov was talking about LSD. Why would that be relevant in a discussion about pot? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 13:37, Slide wrote: Because the subject came up as to using chemicals to "free" the creative process. Asimov was against it. I don't believe you could actually free your mind through "pot" or "LSD" any more than you could through just relaxing. However, I want to go on record that while I don't believe marijuana can free your creativity, that doesn't mean I agree it should remain unlawful. I haven't seen any evidence that marijuana is any more dangerous than cigarettes and/or alcohol.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Your Government experts say:
How does marijuana use affect school, work, and social life? Research has shown that marijuana's negative effects on attention, memory, and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.15  Consequently, someone who smokes marijuana daily may be functioning at a reduced intellectual level most or all of the time. Not surprisingly, evidence suggests that, compared with their nonsmoking peers, students who smoke marijuana tend to get lower grades and are more likely to drop out of high school.16  A meta-analysis of 48 relevant studies—one of the most thorough performed to date—found cannabis use to be associated consistently with reduced educational attainment (e.g., grades and chances of graduating).17  However, a causal relationship is not yet proven between cannabis use by young people and psychosocial harm. That said, marijuana users themselves report poor outcomes on a variety of life satisfaction and achievement measures. One study compared current and former long-term heavy users of marijuana with a control group who reported smoking cannabis at least once in their lives but not more than 50 times. Despite similar education and income backgrounds, significant differences were found in educational attainment: fewer of the heavy users of cannabis completed college, and more had yearly household incomes of less than $30,000. When asked how marijuana affected their cognitive abilities, career achievements, social lives, and physical and mental health, the majority of heavy cannabis users reported the drug's negative effects on all of these measures. In addition, several studies have linked workers' marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers' compensation claims, and job turnover. For example, a study among postal workers found that employees who tested positive for marijuana on a pre-employment urine drug test had 55 percent more industrial accidents, 85 percent more injuries, and a 75-percent increase in absenteeism compared with those who tested negative for marijuana use. It contains many references: http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ma......ferences http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ma......ial-life What are you pot smokers - some sort of conspiracy nuts?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 13:37, Slide wrote: Because although he may have been talking about LSD, his comment ("chemicals") was certainly not limited to LSD.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 13:27, LobowolfXXX wrote: Yes. Asimov was talking about LSD. It is hardly clear that his observations relate at all to pot. If you want to relate what he said to all chemicals, I'd be hard pressed to think of ANYTHING we ingest that wouldn't qualify. But why not address Sagan's essay directly? What, exactly, do you disagree with and why do you feel he is wrong? |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
It isn't as if creativity was a "thing" you could imploy or not. It isn't a commodity you can go out and purchase. Is creativity in the arts the same as it is in the sciences? I personally think of Asimov as more prolific than creative. And what is the nature of creativity? is it based on volume of finished work? Breaking new grounds? Is it just a catch all for completing any kind of project? A term paper. A blog post.
And what does it mean to have more or less of it based on your state of mind. Ken Kesey wrote great sections of Cuckoo's nest while on LSD, to be edited later. For him inspiration came while high, editing when sober. The terms as they are thrown around in this thread are meaningless, let alone as an argument for the continued prohibition of weed. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
As Asimov no doubt knew, LSD isn't the only drug that floods the brain with chemicals.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Drugs which effect the mind do so, it seems to me, in such way as to create an illusion. An illusion is, a distortion of reality. That is to say one does not dream up something altogether imaginary. Imaginary meaning that which exists only in the imagination. Rather one sees what exists in reality but the thing is distorted. That distorted view the thing is an illusion. That illusion is only in your head but if can manifest it then it would be a work of art which you have created. For example: You look at a real women, name Mona Lisa, but because you are off your head on drugs, you see the Mona in a different light than what she actually is in reality. Now if you manifest that illusion of her, by painting it, then that would be a work of art.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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irossall Special user Snohomish, Washington 529 Posts |
Like Salvador Dali?
Photon's bounce off of objects and the brain puts it all together. We never see anything in the exact state that it is in at the time we think we are observing our environment. It takes time for the photon's to reach the eye and time for the brain to put it all together. The brain also has to take time to reverse the upside down image that the eye's send to the optic nerves. We see what the brain tells us to see. Same with taste, touch and everything else in our material world. What is reality anyway? What is illusion? It's what we think it to be. Iven
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
You will not operate efficiently if you see things differently than is normal.
According to your logic you can drive when stoned and drunk. Nature cares not what you think, it just gives you a slap when do not conform with it. It tells that way what is an illusion. Van Gough produced some fine art when going insane but that does not prove that insanity is good for you. How many children's lives are being ruined by pot is self evident from the experts reports. I guess we could go off on the magical mystery tour trip of the cosmos with Carl Sagan, with his secular humanism, debasing man, knocking him his pedestal onto the ground along with the animals and all that kind of watermelon stuff of the bankers agenda. After all it does fit in nicely with the government getting help from a national TV campaign and other lobbying efforts supporting by billionaire currency speculator and philanthropist George Soros and his Open Society Foundation and Drug Policy Alliance. And in September, Mujica metting with Soros and billionaire David Rockefeller in New York to explain his legal-market plan. It is quite strange when you consider that the Rockefeller central bankers have nearly total control over the production, distribution, sale and use of that green stuff which call money and nearly total control over the production, distribution, sale and use of that other green stuff which we call marijuana.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
So your rebuttal to Sagan simply consists of slandering him and calling him names? How about a substantive response? (Without, I hope, the usual conspiracy theory crap.)
Guess what? I'd put a lot more credence in Sagan's opinions than any of yours. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I have given my view that one can get creative on drugs. If anyone is coming out with conspiracy theory crap it is you pot smokers, who deny your Government experts reports. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Guess what? I am hardly surprised that you would put a lot more credence in Sagan's opinions than any of mine since you are well in to the green and its agenda.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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irossall Special user Snohomish, Washington 529 Posts |
"How many children's lives are being ruined by pot is self evident from the experts reports"? Less than Alcohol, in my opinion.
Unless you mean their lives being ruined by the laws against Marijuana ie: imprisonment, loss of job, loss of Home etc... With over 10,000 years of Pot use Worldwide, how could we have made it this far and be so successful with all these "Children" being "ruined"? Iven
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 14:20, tommy wrote: Your opinion eh Top 12 Discoveries Made by Carl Sagan While Stoned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV0gH-cHiQg :)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
For me, tommy won this disagreement about ten pages back.
Of course you don't have to be a very smart man to see that dope is bad. And just because we already have alcohol, cigarettes, etc, doesn't make it ok for use. I personally know several lives that were destroyed by marijuana. That's a real fact. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-30 09:42, tommy wrote: Tommy- there's a big post Christmas tin foil sale going on this week. Be sure to check it out! Calling me part of the Green movement would be hilarious to anyone who knows me. I smoke, I drink and all kinds of other stuff that would horrify environmentalists. But, whatever floats your boat. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The 10 Most Successful Potheads on the Planet… David Icke? Bob Hope and Shapeshifters?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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