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Pagangod
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New user
Denver, CO
13 Posts

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I just wanted to know why magicians do not like to post real information to help out. The responses I see for persons needing help are very obscure and point you to go buy some product. Purchasing magic books and supplies is financially breaking so I guess most people have the attitude if I had to buy it then they will to. I tell you what when I get the experience built up I will totally help beginners out with clear and concise instructions on how to perform. Most tricks other magicians have seen already so why not help out instead of treating them like Mormon temple secrets.
jcards01
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Inner circle
Waterloo, IL
1438 Posts

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I guess it shows commitment if somebody is willing to get a book or two and learn from it. To just give out information on how something is done to somebody you have never met and do not know if they are truly interested in magic or just 'how did he do it' is hard over the internet.

There are still plenty of books out there that are reasonable expecially for beginners. Royal Road and Expert Card Technique for card performers can still be found at great prices.

Once you have 50 posts and can get into the other areas on this board, more information on how something is done can be discussed back and forth.
Jimmy 'Cards' Molinari
www.jimmycards.com
pbg739
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Veteran user
San Jose, Ca
340 Posts

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I second what Jimmy says. Are you talking about the Café, or in general. It helps to have a helping hand but this isn't a catch all where you can fill in the blanks. We all started somewhere, and had to learn some stuff. If there is something specific troubling you (an effect to use a double lift in etc) feel free to PM me.

Pete
espalding
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New user
St. Louis
59 Posts

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I must admit, I have found most of the help in these forums to be clear and concise, as long as you ask a clear, concise question to begin with. There is no clear cut formula for performing. It's something you have to figure out for yourself, although many of the books/DVDs referenced here can really help. But you can't reproduce all of that material here. Even forgetting copyright problems, if you can make books out of it, then it's too much for bullets in a post on a forum.

So I'm not sure what "real information" you're looking for.

Eric.
Daniel J. Ferrara Jr.
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Regular user
Long Island, New York
182 Posts

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If money is the issue, you can always take books out of the library. I don't think the reason you are told to buy books is because "that's how I learned". I think it is because it is too easy to just ask, how is this done. If I answered that question every time someone asked me, they wouldn't be secrets anymore. If I see that someone has taken the time to take out a book and learn an effect, then I am happy to assist them on "better" ways to perform the illusion.
Steven Steele
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Chief of Staff
Hesperia, California USA
1904 Posts

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I guess it's because I would rather type 50-250 words and give the basic concepts rather than copy 500 pages from the book. Call me lazy... Smile

I guess this is one of the shortcomings of the internet. It can't replace a real mentor or teacher. We do the best we can to help each other out; but I do go deeper to people that I feel are truly looking for it, just not in this particular method...(IMing, e-mails, etc.)

I guess it's just me....

Steven Smile
Pagangod
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New user
Denver, CO
13 Posts

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I appreciate your comments as it helps me see from the more experienced. Cheers.
Bob Sanders
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Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20518 Posts

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Magicians are expected to make an investment in themselves. Expressing an unwillingness to read and research an effect is very persuasive in leading others to believe they have exposed a trick to a non-performer. What level of commitment to practice is indicated here?

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
Pagangod
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New user
Denver, CO
13 Posts

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Well I just spent 300 dollars at a magic shop in DVD's because I find the books are hard to follow. I am visual and I need to see for myself. So hopefully this is the next best thing to a live mentor.
treysdaddy
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92 Posts

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Spending $300 probably got you 9 DVDs. You will quickly be in magic overload if you jump into all of them at once. Try to spend some time on a couple of them so you don't burn yourself out. I know what you mean about DVDs being easier to learn from. It is somewhat like having a personal tutor for the effects. I have read a lot of good advice in the Café about developing a personal style first and then learning effects to go along with that style. Have fun...
Bill
"V"
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UK
53 Posts

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As a relative newbie to magic I've experienced the same kind of frustration mentioned in this thread, but to be honest I've never really expected a shortcut. The magic community naturally thrives and lives on secrecy to quite a large degree (especially with the ease of information-bleed across the Web).

What I can recommend is getting some of the books/videos that you hear mentioned all the time - these will give the basic concepts in the fields in which you're interested and more importantly will give you an 'ear' for the way people in this strange subculture communicate.

You'll then be able to continue trawling online sources boards and forums and pick up far more than you thought possible by reading between the lines, understanding allusions etc.
Paul Menzel
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Special user
Boise, Idaho
530 Posts

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Magic is, by nature, secretive, and the Magic Café has rules regarding exposure. So of necessity, some answers here are vague and assume others have certain knowledge already to fully understand the content of the response and protect secrets from merely inquisitive, prying eyes. However, those rules apply to the public areas. If you show sincere interest and ask politely, many of the knowledgeable people here will help you out via private messages. It can't hurt to ask. That's what we're here for anyway!

Did you purchase your DVDs from an online store or a local magic shop? If the latter, spend some time there and let it be known that you are looking for a mentor. A good mentor can really accelerate your rate of growth and help keep you on track.
Bill Palmer
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Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24275 Posts

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You are in a city that has a couple of very active magic clubs. Go to your local magic shop. I know there is one in Denver, because I was in Denver just a couple of months ago. Ask the fellow behind the counter how to get in touch with the local IBM Ring or SAM Assembly. Go to a meeting and get to know the fellows. At least one of them will be a person who will be glad to help you learn.

Once you have demonstrated a genuine desire to learn the art of magic, you can join the club, and many doors that were otherwise closed will be open to you.

And never give up. Magic requires dedication. It requires acting skill. It requires practice.

You learn basic things first, then you build upon them. And as you build and learn, you improve.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Alikzam
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Elite user
434 Posts

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All the good stuff is hidden in books Smile Nah I'm just kidding. I find slights difficult to learn from books myself too, but once I know the moves learning and effect from a book doesn't feel so daunting.
andre combrinck
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South Africa
953 Posts

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I see it this way. Someone thought out something that most people wouldn't, and most are fooled by it. Let’s say that you invented a fold-up Coke bottle (Imagine this-once you had enough to drink, fold it up and store it in your pocket. If you had invented it (like the man who invented the plastic ends around your shoe lace), wouldn't you expect some reward?

Be serious. Even if you were Dai Vernon, surely if you revealed the secret it would only be to experienced magicians or for material reward.
Andre
ajcombri@telkomsa.net
wanabe 1
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49 Posts

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Why not post real info?
I feel that you have visited 1 of the best if not "the" best site. There is more info here than one can possibly ever use. Do your self a favor and start reading new and old posts find out your interests, then buy books ,video's,dvd's or whatever floats your boat.
There are many great people here that are happy to anwser any questions after you have made an effort on your part.
I am also a beginner and this site has been very helpful.

Just my 2 cents.
Bill Palmer
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Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24275 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Once you get your 50 posts in, you will have access to the banquet room. That's where the good stuff is.

There has to be some standard for letting you in on the good stuff. Posting 50 posts is better than nothing.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Shadowzen
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69 Posts

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This does seem to be friendliest, most helpful forum for magicians that I have found on the internet. I have learned more here than any other forum, and I don't even have 50 posts yet.

Another place I'd recommend you visit is http://www.magicvideodepot.com They have tons of videos and while the secrets are not revealed there, you can usually figure them out if you watch the video repeatedly enough. This way, you can just focus on learning the tricks that appeal to you, and you won't have to spend nearly as much money.
drgnjames123
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delaware
32 Posts

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I bought Mark Wilson's course on magic and at first by just skimming through it I thought it would be tough. I just picked out some basic tricks and learned them first and then as I read more harder stuff like sleights, I will begin to see these tricks as easy ones. Its easier to learn quick stuff and even that is fun, and then to grow to a more difficult one. Example, do a cut and restored rope trick (easy), then a "ring on the rope" trick (medium)and then a "rope and coat release (a little tougher). here you will also build up a routine for rope magic. "a baby must learn to crawl before it can learn to walk".

Good luck!

p.s. I bought mark's book at boarders for 20 bills!
James
JJDrew
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Loyal user
Arizona
221 Posts

Profile of JJDrew
I work in a magic shop and almost daily people come in and ask me "the secrets." I had one fellow walk in, come straight up to me, and ask how David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear. He had no interest in performing magic himself. He just assumed that since it said "Magic Shop" on the front of the store that all employees there would spill their guts. I didn't tell him for three reasons. One, who was he to ask? Not a student of magic, not anybody planning to perform, not even a customer, just an idly curious passer-by. Second, that's not my secret to give away. Copperfield worked very hard to put that illusion together, it's his secret to keep or share as he pleases. Third, many people never learned that old adage, "You don't have to say everything you know" and it isn't always easy to differentiate between those who can keep a secret and those who can't, at least at the first meeting.
This is an extreme example, but you get the idea. When people genuinely interested in magic who practice what they learn and intend to perform walk in, I'm much more likely to help them out and share some moves.
On the internet I'd be extra careful. There are countless people who lie about who they are for one reason or another, and those idly curious people are all over the web. I have both recieved and given precise, detailed instruction, but you have to be careful who you choose as a recipiant.
That said, I've found the magic Café to be extremely insightful and detailed and I haven't even used it for that long. It's informative in every area of magic except for the actual mechanisms, and frankly, the actual mechanisms in many cases are the least important part of an effect. Presentation, crowd control, and many other factors are much more important when considering entertainment value.
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