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broothal Elite user Europe 448 Posts 
You are correct. My bad.
I was so far into the idea of predicting the outcome of 3 games of RPS that I did not make it clear in my post. I think just predicting one game is too little. And predicting them 3 times seperately doesn't really work either. I.e. "I will now place a NEW prediction in my breast pocket, predicting the NEXT game". But alas, having the result of 3 games is 3*9=27. Of course, there are ways to reduce that by considering symmetry, draws etc. For me it boils down to reduction of logistics. Taking a paper out and putting it in again is logistics. I would like to device a routine with as little logistics as possible. 

westo Special user Portugal 515 Posts 
Maybe your thinking of Rock,Paper,Scissors,Lizard,Spock
Creator of 'The Famous Westo Peek'..'The Westo Dump' and the 'Westolope'


Mark_Chandaue Inner circle Essex UK 3746 Posts 
There are ways around it ie predicting the outcome of the third game of r p s, they play 3 games in a row and you have predicted the outcome of the final game. Even though you are still only predicting the same single game, the fact that they play 3 games make the odds appear to be far greater than 1 in 9.
You can do looch's version 3 times in a row with three different predictions numbered one two and three. If you know looch's method how to do it 3 times in a row should be apparent (if you don't know his effect get his excellent penguin lecture, you won't regret it). However I don't like this idea because unlike which hand that is a straight 50/50 and so needs to be repeated, r p s has multiple possible outcomes and many people think there are far more than there really are and so it doesn't need to be repeated. If you are going to repeat it you need some form of progression, some way of making each successive attempt more impossible rather than simply repeating the same effect 3 times. Sometimes repeating something can make it more impressive with each attempt e.g. calling heads or tails. However some things lose their power with each successive demonstration unless you up the stakes because the novelty wears off and so each successive demonstration seems less impressive (something I use to very good effect on those occasions that a heckler comes out with a line so funny I can't compete, I compliment them on the line and ask them to repeat it, I actually get them to repeat it around 4 times before delivering my response. By the 4th time they say their line it has long since stopped being funny and then my line (that would be an inadequate response but for the timing) is delivered and buries them stone dead. Anyway I digress, if I wanted to do more than one phase I would first do looch's and then I would increase the difficulty by performing it with 2 spectators as outlined in my prior post. Mark
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
Harpacrown is available from http://www.harpacrown.co.uk Harpacrown Too is available from http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=harpacrowntoo Ophiuchus is available from http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=ophiuchus Totally Free Will is available from http://www.harpacrown.co.uk/?product=totallyfreewill 

1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 3892 Posts 
I am looking for a way to use this in a Q&A session. I would like to use only one gimmick with four outs. Obviously, I could have "yes" and "no", but that leaves two more. I want the answers to be definitive, not "maybe". Can anyone think of four definitive answers?
KJ 

westo Special user Portugal 515 Posts 
Yes. No. True. False.
Creator of 'The Famous Westo Peek'..'The Westo Dump' and the 'Westolope'


1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 3892 Posts 
Westo,
Why didn't I think of that!? That's why you probably get the big bucks. Thanks, kj 

westo Special user Portugal 515 Posts 
Big bucks? I wish!
Creator of 'The Famous Westo Peek'..'The Westo Dump' and the 'Westolope'


EddieM Regular user Experienced but only 172 Posts 
It looks like stores are getting the REFILL packs in now. I see MJM Magic now has a bunch of them (Zodiac, 4 Way, 3 Way, etc):
Refill Packs for Way Out XII
 EddieM


ArtIn Inner circle Berlin 1252 Posts 
Unfortunatley the writing shows thru the paper. Anybody having the same problem?


Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts 
Hi Artin,
Are you using the pen that comes with Way Out XII? It was specially chosen because it doesn't bleed through. You can also use a black crayon and that definitely won't bleed through. Best, Atlas 

Pit Boss Special user 551 Posts 
Just got this. The 4onone aspect was enough for me to purchase, I'll probably never use the switch. And I'm very happy.
Right off the bat I think I'll use the single piece of paper with a Koran (5 star prediction) deck... 

Mike ODonnell Loyal user Chicago 211 Posts 
I just received this and on my first impression of the premade star sign is not that great in terms of a closeup setting. Let's just say, you have to cover two edges with your fingers( better have large hands, as I do) to make it look presentable. Maybe my batch was not made to the best quality. I hope my own construction will be better. The idea and possibilities of this utility device is great. I will post later after use and my own construction.
Mike 

ArtIn Inner circle Berlin 1252 Posts 
Quote:
On 20140209 15:36, MagicAtlas wrote: Hi Atlas, yes I used the supplied pen and also made sure to write very quickly on the paper. Its not completely bleeding thru but the writing on the backside can be lightly seen. Thanks for the hint. kind regards, Martin 

Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts 
Hi Martin,
I'm happy to help. The trick isn't in the speed of writing, but in taking care not to overlap the letters to the point in which the ink bleeds through. Something else which works extremely well was suggested to me by my good friend Steve  he uses external alphabet stickers and they are bold, visible, and don't show through in the least. Mike, I'd really recommend pressing the "cards" and taking your time in front of the mirror when presenting this. If you bow the paper outward to make it concave from your perspective, that helps a bit, though in truth, only two of the four reveals could really be problematic (and one in the three way) and that is easily covered by holding the paper in your hand and using the middle (rather than the index) finger to open it the second half of the way. This leaves your middle finger on the crease at the top and the others join it quite naturally. I hope this makes sense. Basically, just leave your fingers at the top in the middle, rather than moving them all the way to the side of the paper and it looks perfect. Best, Atlas 

Mike ODonnell Loyal user Chicago 211 Posts 
Thx for the tip(s) Atlas, will give it a try.


Mike ODonnell Loyal user Chicago 211 Posts 
After taking Atlas's advice ( thx Atlas) I no longer have an issue with performing this in a close up setting. I have been practicing for the past few days to get it down smoothly. If you are familiar with star signs, Marc's mnemonic is easy to learn. It took about 1530 minutes to master. A great read to memorize star sign dates is Star Signs by Julian Moore.
Mike 

Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts 
Hi Mike,
I'm glad I could be of some help! I figured that as we hailed from the same great state, I'd make an effort As you use this more and more, you'll find that its scope extends far beyond what is offered on the DVD. Anyone familiar with Colin's BBT can see how you could start by handing your participant an envelope... Best, Atlas 

Mike ODonnell Loyal user Chicago 211 Posts 
Just had a thought for an alternative to the breast pocket, use mentalcraft's velour bag. Will give it a try when I get home.


Chakkan New user France 26 Posts 
I can't sayt how much I LOVE this trick !
Those that complain about the number of outs by paper or te edge thickness have not tried it... Even close up, it rocks, really. And for those who do possess it, here is my gift : an Open Prediction using Way Out XII. In addition to the Magigazine #15 (broadcast scheduled on 28th February) where we talk about Way Out XII by Marc Oberon, here is an Open Prediction I’m glad to offer, working with this tool. Warning :  You must be able to perform a perfect Faro for this routine  You must be able to divide by 2, and eventually substract 26. Preparation : Complete deck with a key card (short, crimp, breather, thick…). Separate 12 cards of your choice, I’ll take the Hearts family in that example. From top to bottom, place the cards like this : Ace from Queen of Hearts in order, key card, rest of the deck. Prepare your Way Out XII according to the 12 cards you use (if different from the Hearts used here). Routine : Show the deck face up and fan some cards to show that it is shuffled (don’t go too far an reveal that the Hearts are packed in the same quarter). Tell the spectator that you have a piece of paper that will help you through this trick, and ask him a number between 1 and 52. While you talk and the spectator answers, perform a perfect Faro in shuffle. If the number is bigger than 26, cut immediately after the shuffle, and put the deck on the table. When you reach for the piece of paper :  If the number is on the paper that protrudes from your pocket, take it out as slowly and cleanly as possible and put it on the table or keep clearly at the tip of your fingertips.  If the number is on another piece of paper, use verbal misdirection by looking in the eyes and say, for instance “Strange choice… I’ll ask you to work a little, otherwise you might think I cheat. Please count as many cards as the number you just told”. The person counts, and depending on the configuration, either turn the last card or the following card. To see the conditions, check “The Secret”. The Secret : By performing a perfect Faro, every other card is a Hearts (2...4...6...8…) Number between 1 and 26.  If the announced number is even, the spectator counts and turns the last card. The prediction to use with Way Out XII equals the number divided by 2. For example : the spectator says 16, you divide by 2, which gives 8, you get the 8 of hearts.  If the announced number is odd, the spectator counts and turns the following card. The prediction card to use with Way Out XII equals the number divided by 2, rounded up. For example : the spectator says 17, you divide by 2, which gives 8.5, thus 9.You get the 9 of hearts.  The weakness is 26, which is not covered with Way Out XII. But you know that card since it is your key card. This is why I don’t say earlier that there is something written on the paper. If 26 is chosen, you light say that this paper has magic properties, and by lifting quickly on your key card and inserting your paper in the deck you can say that not only it is in 26th position, but that the chosen card is the Queen of Spades (name of your key card). Number between 27 and 52. Reminder : at that point you have already cut after you shuffled, whici positioned your prediction cards in the second half of the deck. Substract 26 from the number, and proceed as above to divide by 2 and know which Way Out XII piece of paper to use. Strengths :  You never touch the deck after the shuffle  You don’t use a card as prediction but a written document, which eludes the idea of manipulation  Very direct, the paper stays in full sight all the time  No cardistry except a Faro  Very little memory work. Enjoy ! 

Chakkan New user France 26 Posts 
And for those of you who don't want to use it with a Jacket for the Pocket, have a look to the Fox Holdout by Wayne Fox. Sleeves rolled up anyone ?


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