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eatonmagic Special user Orlando, FL 737 Posts |
Hey guys,
I have had several PM's regarding some comments I made about the way I track results for restaurants when they have hired me. While I am a believer in helping people out, I also respect and value one's time and would hope that you all feel the same way. I have kept these systems VERY private and did not want to share them with any other magicians. But now, I am considering putting out a small e-book showing how to set up these systems so magicians can track the results and have a measuring stick to show management a "progress report" on whether or not the magic is having an impact. I know that a LOT of magician's use the phrase "I can increase your business" when approaching an establishment about performing there but, in all honesty, they only say that to get in the door. In my 20+ years of performing in restaurants both casual and fine dining, I have encountered the dreaded "We have to let you go" scenario. I've even tried to come back with the "but I'm bringing in business" line in my defense only to be countered with the "can you prove it?" response. Sadly, I could not. In fact, I didn't know of anyone that could. But after testing out some ideas in the late 90's and continuing to use them, I began slowly finding ways of tracking my efforts. I could then use the data collected to show the owners/managers that indeed I was or was not bringing in customers. This had a HUGE impact on my value to the business and in several cases, led to more pay and more gigs. So much so, I found myself between 2002-2006 performing 6 nights a week! Please understand that I am NOT trying to come in here and act like a guru. These are simply put, methods that worked for me. This is not some "magic beans" that will make you rich so please understand I am not trying to get rich quick lol. However, with that being said, I am having a hard time coming up with a fair price point. I know from experience that most magicians are completely cheap and egotistical. I'm not saying all of us but a majority yes! I have met many magicians that will spend several hundreds of dollars on a set of coins but would not spend $100 on promo materials to make themselves look professional so they could make that money back ten-fold. it;s always about the latest trick and move to most. However, there are a few out there I feel will truly find something in here and use the ideas at their restaurants or even better yet, use when prospecting new restaurants. And with the power of social media and mobile, the possibilities have tripled since I first started these techniques. Anyways, let me know what you guys would think is a fair price. I'm thinking it will be around 25-50 pages. Short and sweet. Possibly an e-book. $25…$50…$99…$199? What is this information worth now a days? |
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
I'm interested.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Tim Friday Elite user 485 Posts |
I am interested. Maybe if you posted a table of contents I would be able to reply with an opinion on the cost.
I would guess you could easily sell it for $25 to $40. A few products that come to mind is Guy Vaynerchucks new book on social media "Jab, Jab, Right Hook" selling for $18 on amazon. Or Lou Serrano's course which is the best I have found on magic business & marketing that costs more however it is a very comprehensive course. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Allow me to jump in if Michael does not mind.
I have been the LOUDEST proponent of the "prove it" crowd. Having been in ownership it is a pretty good perspective. Most magicians think being able to do card tricks automatically makes them good at the restaurant business. Automatically they know how to bring in person after person resulting in revenue. Problem is this perspective is based more in hope than expectation and is a result of how much THEY LOVE MAGIC. Not really a great perspective. Now we get to Michael. Michael already qualifies as a Facebook guru in my book. But a couple years ago we were chatting about tracking results as he speaks of and he DOES HAVE A SYSTEM and it does work. I can not make it too much more simple. Now keep in mind a few things. One it is work and needs to be followed up on. Second it tracks YOUR RESULTS. If you do not get the results it is not the fault of the system. This could potentially be a painful lesson. Be prepared. Lastly not every owner will be swayed by the data. It is what it is. People are people. It is no guarantee of acceptance. But it IS a way to track progress. As for the value? Priceless.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MichaelDouglas Special user Portland, Oregon 766 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-12-28 09:24, Tim Friday wrote: I'm inclined to agree with this post on the price. I've paid more for courses before, but like Tim mentioned, they were comprehensive, they had a detailed table of contents I could consider before the purchase, and they had lots of testimonials to support the claims and the fee. They also generally had templates and forms that I could copy and tweek to save me time. One consideration is that varying according to the volume of information, you could break it into two products..part 1 and part 2. One thing that I consistently hear about marketing is to under promise and over deliver. It's better to leave your customers raving about how much value they got compared to the fee they paid. That will generate testimonials that will help you sell even more. The bottom line question is whether it is most profitable to make your money off of fewer sales at a higher price, or make lots of sales at a lower price. I generally think the latter. However if you are concerned about ACTION in addition to profit, then there is another consideration. People don't value as highly things that don't cost them that much. When people have some real skin in the game, then they are much more likely to take action to implement what they paid for. Another convincer at a higher price is to do like the higher priced marketing courses commonly do. Offer a money back guarantee or a conditional guarantee. If they've taken certain steps toward implementation in a given time period, and it fails to deliver the value that was promoted, then they can get a refund in a certain amount of time. Another convincer at a higher price is to offer a free 30 min phone call consultation with it or free email support for a defined amount of time. Lastly, psychologically I think that people are willing to pay more for tangible goods. If you are offering a hardbound book or set of DVD's and a manual...etc...they'll pay more. However you are offering the same product that they download as an ebook or audio files, etc...then I think people are less comfortable with an electronic purchase at a higher price. I justify this assertion by the price you see on Amazon for a kindle version vs a bound copy of the same book. Yet the profitability is higher with ebooks that they download themselves. There is something to be said for not having to ship product. I'm looking forward to your product. |
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krissheppard New user 63 Posts |
I'd totally invest in that book.
Successful Performercast
www.successfulperformercast.com The show that interviews one professional performer per week with the goal of inspiring & equipping those who are working to go full-time themselves. Kris Sheppard — delightfully clever magic www.krissheppardmagic.com |
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Blindside785 Inner circle Olympia, WA 4541 Posts |
I'd invest.
Considering Adam Milgate's "Real-Secrets" book is $65 Jamie D. Grant's "The Approach" is $75 I'd take a jab at a $60-$70 price point being that it's a system. It depends on the information in there. I would even gesture at $120 if you include more on the subjects of restaraunts and the sure-fire ways you have gotten your foot in the door. |
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Tim Friday Elite user 485 Posts |
I had the chance to speak with Michael Eaton today and I found his system to be very impressive. He has different ways to track the customers who come in for magic and a way to report this data to the restaurants.
I really like this system, it makes a lot of sense and I can see how it will benefit a restaurant and the magician. I hope his book comes out soon because I would like a copy. |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts |
I've known Danny for quite some time, and I, also, know his opinion as far as magicians insisting they can increase business. So, for him to speak highly of Mr. Eaton's system.....well, count me in!
As far as a price, I would be willing to roll the dice for something in the $50-$60 range....be about a dollar a page. I cringe when I see these "courses" in the $100-$200 (and up) dollar range. patrick |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2014-01-08 12:27, patrick flanagan wrote: Why? I've never understood this mentality. If you could learn something valuable that could improve or increase your business by hundreds or thousands of dollars whether immediately or even over time, how is $100-$200 cringe-worthy? You must invest in yourself and your business. I would gladly spend $200 or far more as an investment that would yield such returns, any day of the week. |
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Jesse Lewis Loyal user 227 Posts |
I could not agree more for most entertainers in general $2000 for equipment and 20 for marketing is the norm. Personally I am the opposite $2000 for marketing and $20 for equipment. That is why some people have wildly growing businesses and others are stuck at the same level for years and years.
If made into a full course with not only the measurement system but the booking strategies it is worth a whack of cash simply for the fact of having a booking system that a person can USE. The moaning of price comes from when people do not implement. Recently I took a 10 week marketing course for entertainers for $1200 most of the information I knew but some I did not. 1 gold nugget can be worth thousands over time so the question is can a person find a gold nugget? Mr Eaton, price it 1 of two ways on the percieved value to the potential client and the real value it can have when implemented. My price point for a full BAR BOOKING marketing system including a specific quantifiable measurable system to measure the results has been up to $200 and it was well worth every penny because I implemented it. Having a higher price may exclude some but in my experience those are ussually the ones that are not willing to do the work anyhow. Jesse
Learn how to build a bigger business at www.showbizsuccesssecrets.com
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eatonmagic Special user Orlando, FL 737 Posts |
I'm really loving the feedback I am getting here guys! Please keep it coming!
DannyDoyle- Thank you for the kind words. I enjoyed our chat that day and hope to be working with you on your future design projects Tim- It was a pleasure speaking with you as well. I'm glad you found value in our conversation. If booked, let me know the results of my suggestions. As for everyone else… I have been glancing over all your ideas and I really think, at this time, I only want to focus on tracking strategies. I just DO NOT have the time to write an entire course on approaching restaurants. I'm sure that Jaime's book will more than suffice on methods that have been time tested and approved. I DO have my own methods for booking restaurants but in all honesty, they are Guerrilla style combined with unique tracking systems that can back up what you say you can do. Truthfully, I am surprised that someone hasn't already been using the same metrics. Jesse, you are very correct! A lot of guys WILL NOT spend the money on marketing materials and those are the ones I'd like to avoid. SImply due to the fact that I value my time and energy and mainly my ideas and would hate to see them fall into the hands of the procrastinated or lazy performer. LOL. What do you guys think about this… When I spoke with Tim the other day, I did a 45-minute consultation for $100. In that time, I was able to cover a variety of topics including my tracking system which was broken into several sections. Without giving too much information away, it involves a combination of analytics, social media metrics, info graphics, psycho graphics and customer feedback. I tried not go into too much detail about how I approach restaurants but rather how I can deliver a "progress report" every month that will show a healthy ROI and secure my residence at that venue. How many of you would like to see not only the tracking system but maybe some packages including: • Templates for Proposals, Performance Agreements, Invoices, Business Cards, Postcards, Posters and Sales Sheets/Brochures • Landing Pages for Facebook • Facebook posts (to help build engagement) as well as a series of screen recordings showing tips and tricks? • How to use Mobile Marketing in conjunction with Social Media …and lastly, discounted design services for premium purchases. I am thinking about doing the eBook for $99 and $149 for the eBook and a 30-minute private consultation over the phone or Skype. I'll follow up with more package options soon. Any thoughts? |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
My thought is a tracking system ALONE is the secret of cold fusion!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jesse Lewis Loyal user 227 Posts |
I would love to see this package come together.
Jesse
Learn how to build a bigger business at www.showbizsuccesssecrets.com
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts |
Mindpro
I completely agree with you. $100-$200 for USEFUL information is a bargain. Problem is I've seen quite a few "courses" being advertised by people I've never heard of. I have no idea if their "courses" are worth it. Are they imparting valid, real world, proven techniques and information or are they just spewing rehashed ideas cultivated from someone else's "courses" or pipe dreams that have no real world utilization? That is why I cringe. Of course, they all sound great on the surface. One that I had purchased was disappointing. As far as Michael, well, I've seen his posts on here for a while. I usually like what he has to say. I'm familiar with some of the names in his circle....names I've come to respect. I would trust his product. patrick |
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Jesse Lewis Loyal user 227 Posts |
Patrick, there is one failing with a lot of products that teach business and that is that they teach business. At the core of 99.9% of any business course is:
Create USP Create Marketing Market it this way or that Sell product Profit The problem may not actually be with the product but your own previous busienss knowledge! For instance if you knew absolutly nothing were a complete newbie about the intended business market would the bad product you bought would it have set you on the right path or a better path than you are currently on? Very few new things have been introduced to marketing in the last 100 years or so, sure some things change but the base still stays the same: how do we sell produce and profit from out product. It is all about perspective a "trainer, guru, teacher, or coach" does not have to be better at something or have a better system they just have to have put it into a product and market it. But that in itself is another issue. Jesse
Learn how to build a bigger business at www.showbizsuccesssecrets.com
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RobertlewisIR Veteran user Colorado 367 Posts |
If the information is really good and it's going to make me money, then a higher price point is justified. Here's my concern. We're talking about an ebook which <50 pages long. It's really hard for me to justify such a purchase to myself unless the price is very low. Why? Because I'm still one of those guys who finds that I like to receive a little tangible value for my money, so I'm not big on ebooks, and secondly, it's too easy to self-publish absolute crap as an ebook. For those reasons, I'm much more willing to pay $50 or $100 for a short book that's been professionally published. First, I actually get a *thing* I can put on my bookshelf, and second, a professional editor has done two things: they have screened the book and decided that it has merit, and they have edited the book so I'm not reading a document filled with typographical errors or grammatical mistakes.
All that having been said, I am interested in the book, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'll purchase. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be very much on the fence about what you've described so far (and if the price is on the higher end of the suggestions here, I'd probably pass on it). The best ways to add value for me would be to publish in hard copy, to include a *detailed* table of contents so that I know what I'm getting, to lengthen the book with additional information (particularly, in addition to just a pamphlet on tracking results, I'd like to see a full book on how to improve those results), and to publish one or two sample chapters (they needn't give away too much, but I want to see the kind of material I'm getting). Finally, this one is rather beyond your control, but I want to see detailed reviews from readers before I purchase. And I want to see those reviews both from seasoned professionals and absolute beginners, who work in different types of venues in different geographic regions, because I want to know how well your system works for a variety of people (so that I can hone in on whether it will work for me). Basically, the more you can do to add value and to convince me that the system works, the more likely I am to buy the book.
~Bob
---------- Last night, I dreamed I ate the world's largest marshmallow. When I woke up, the pillow was gone. |
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eatonmagic Special user Orlando, FL 737 Posts |
Quote:
On 2014-01-09 14:14, RobertlewisIR wrote: Hi Robert, Thank you for your wonderful feedback! I appreciate you taking the time to throw in your two cents. This entire project was to only share the methods I have used to track my results and show a progress report to my restaurant in order for them to see that their investment is paying off. I honestly had not intentions of blowing this up into an entire series nor a leviathan of a book let alone a hard-bound book. Not only would my overhead go up but the price would too and then we face more battles. I'm a big advocate of "work smarter not harder". In all fairness, information is information. My intentions are not to try and create a collector's piece here my intention is to give, my systems, to the right people, who will use them effectively, for the right price. I started this post to get people's thoughts on content and what a fair price would be. I only considered adding the other information to help add some value to the ebook and also, those are a lot of what I focus on when it comes to providing results for both me and my clients. Again, no offense, I just do not want to tackle an endeavor that would take me a year or so to complete. I am WAY too busy for that. The funny part is that when I spoke to Tim, I pretty much covered everything in a matter of 45 minutes to an hour. Between the book and any modules that would go with it, you're probably looking right around an hour or two in order for it to all soak in. But I've never been one to put a value on something based on the length of the content but how strong was the content itself? I believe I only shared 3-4 methods on the call with Tim but that pretty much summed up what I needed to talk about. I remember selling IT at the magic shop inside of Universal Studios. The tourists would see the effect of buy to right up for $30. Then, they would return and want a refund because they were expecting some state-of-the-art gadgetry inside of a 5x5x1 box. ALmost as if they believed they were getting some space-age materials. Why? Because when they saw the results of the product and what it could do, it HAD to have something amazing right? I mean, it COULDN'T be anything less than something out of a James Bond film. So, when they purchased what they believed to be something totally cool and then found out it was just this…."thing" wrapped around a playing card and you had to prepare it, and then wear it…it took away the value they had already created in their mind. Why? Because they underestimated the method(s). I would then tell them that the reason they bought the trick…the REAL reason, is because they could see themselves doing this on THEIR friends and fooling the pants off of them. They agreed. I then proceeded to tell them, "In the end..it does;t matter HOW it is accomplished. The only thing you need to know is that it WILL work." |
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Rodney Palmer Inner circle 1317 Posts |
Sorry, but I have to disagree. There are no sure fire ways to track your results unless you have complete access to all of the business records. And there is NO way to prove that it is the magician bringing in the business. Yes, customers might say they have come to see the magician but more than likely them came for the food and the magic was a bonus. They would come to the restaurant regardless if you were there or not. Most people do not plan going to an establishment just because a magician is there. They come to have dinner, maybe dessert and then possibly go home. The weather plays a big factor on where people eat.
Why is it that Magicians simply do not get it. RESULTS that you are bringing in BUSINESS does not exist and will never exist as there is NO way to track this. Wake up people. If this were a Club situation then yes you could track results as most people are coming in to see a Band play and have a night out. They come for the Music and Drinks and that can be tracked easily. If the Band sucks business will be dead except the regulars that are always at the bar. Rodney
"Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"
In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person. |
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eatonmagic Special user Orlando, FL 737 Posts |
Rodney,
I'm sure that in your mind you believe this but I HAVE been using my own systems for years. If you heard Danny and Tim, I've already discussed with them some of the methods I used and yes, they DO work. Maybe you just haven't found a way yet but I've been using my main method for over 15 years now. I also use other methods (mentioned above) but this specific one mainly tracks ROI and frequency. Besides, the ONLY business records I need to prove are the ones that involve me. Those are easily obtainable using my system. You're entitled to believe what you want to believe and I wish you much continued success. Quote:
On 2014-01-10 02:52, Rodney Palmer wrote: Oh…I'll address each one of your objections briefly: 1) The way I use my system I can. 2) The way I use my system I can. 3).The way I use my system I can. 4). How? |
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