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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Anderson Silva will never walk properly again. (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Magnus Eisengrim
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We know that boxing offers (predominantly) disadvantaged minorities a chance to gamble their health for big money by entertaining the more affluent. Promoters risk considerably less and profit a great deal.

What strata of society do MMA fighters come from? I have heard that at least some of them are college educated, but are they the exception or the rule?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
General_Magician
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What strata of society do MMA fighters come from? I have heard that at least some of them are college educated, but are they the exception or the rule?


When I was a little younger and before my deployment to Afghanistan, based on my experience, most aspiring and professional fighters came from poverty. I remember one fighter who was homeless and just trained hard all the time at the gym and the owner would let him stay at the gym in return for cleaning up around the gym and doing other tasks required of him, plus the owner would train with him as well. This particular gentleman would fight professionally at some events in the state though they were not UFC events.

I took some MMA classes at the time simply as a way to stay in shape and basic self defense but I never intended to fight professionally as I felt I was too old and my heart was not in it like it is in performing magic and entertaining people. I didn't know much about the sport when I first started, but it's a great sport but also a brutal sport. Even during training you had some bad injuries with fighters or people simply training. It wasn't surprising for a fighter to get his arm broken accidentally or have a guy who needed eye surgery after getting hit in the eye pretty good. You learn to take a beating when you trained and just keep fighting on. I could barely walk during my first month of working out at the gym and would walk with a limp. You get into some extraordinary shape and push your body to limits you don't think are possible at times, at least those were the kind of instructors that we had.

I am of course not in that kind of shape anymore like I was when I was working out at the MMA gym in my local area, but I am now getting back into better shape through proper diet and exercise that is not as harsh on the body. After my return home, the VA meds caused some weight gain but my body has adjusted to them over time and I have finally gotten to where I am getting back into some kind of shape again, though I am getting older and age takes it's toll. The gym I worked out at at the time helped to produce two UFC fighters and I would say those two were from the Middle Class, although a Middle Class that has been disappearing here lately. I am not sure if these two fighters were college educated. I think one was a college dropout who dropped out of college to pursue a career as a fighter in the UFC but the other I am not sure if he completed his education or not.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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magicfish
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On 2013-12-29 10:40, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yes we do.

Fine we get it you have an agenda. We understand.

Tell us EXACTLY what Dana did that he could have or should have done differently in your mind. Oh and simply not liking the idea of the sport does not qualify as a position. That is an emotion.

Should we stop horse racing because jockeys get hurt? NASCAR? Football? Baseball? Hockey obviously needs to go, what about Soccar?

Yes you have an agenda. Yes we get it you get all weepy. What activity are you ok with people engaging in for sport?

Your individual distaste for something does not mean that it is automatically bad. Heck I detest boy bands but I don't act like this about it.

We do? Please explain. But please leave out the nonsense. I haven't wept and I enjoy MMA.
So please tell me how we know this.
magicfish
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On 2013-12-29 12:15, General_Magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 03:27, Danny Kazam wrote:
Dana is not laughing. He and ufc have a lot of money invested in him, plus the indorsements from Nike. Dana did not look impressed one bit when he quickly put the belt on Weidman, and did not look very impressed during the post conference.They invested a lot into the myth of Anderson Silva, and tonight, it got completely shattered. No pun attended.Lo,

I agree that he is a champion, a warrior, and has fought well. But I question the honour part. What he did to Weidman in the first fight was a disgrace to himself, his opponent, and to martial arts. He paid for it with full house booing him after his deserved knockout.

This isn't about Dana, this is about Anderson Silva. Anderson Silva is an honorable warrior who is a champion and he fought with honor and he is no "myth." Show some class and respect. What happened shows the reality of the brutality of his profession. I think it's important to take the time to remember that Anderson Silva is a champion and a warrior who has fought well and with honor. He deserves respect and has earned it. It's horrible to see such terrible things happen to honorable men such as Anderson Silva, but it's the nature of his profession and sport. A very brutal sport. I hated to see it happen to Anderson and cringe and feel bad that it happened to Anderson. But Chris was also doing his job as well and he and his coaches knew his opponent quite well and so were on the lookout for Anderson's kicks in the octagon.
General_Magician
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I didn't see the first fight between Anderson Silva and Chris Wiedman. What sort of dishonorable action did Anderson Silva take in this first fight? I knew he lost the first fight, but, these fights are not always available on public television for viewing. I know in the past, Anderson Silva has fought honorably and have watched his conduct in some though not every single last one of his fights. That would be a lot of fights to watch.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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magicfish
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No description will be sufficient unfortunately, you'll have to see it for yourself.
General_Magician
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I'll take your word on it and do some searching on the internet on youtube to see if I can find some video clips of the fight.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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critter
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Quote:
On 2013-12-29 13:05, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 10:12, magicfish wrote:
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On 2013-12-29 08:56, critter wrote:
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On 2013-12-29 01:41, magicfish wrote:
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On 2013-12-29 01:22, critter wrote:
It's just a broken ankle, it's not like he's got Parkinson's syndrome or something.

No. Not a broken ankle.



That was the report I read after the fight. Still, better a jacked up leg than to end up with Parkinson's syndrome like many boxers. My point was that it's still safer to be an UFC fighter than a boxer, statistically. Not to disparage either sport.

We don't know that yet.


+1

UFC hasn't been around long enough for us to judge its safety vs. boxing's.


It's been more than twenty years, I think we have enough data for a valid statistical comparison.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Ray Tupper.
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Quote:
On 2013-12-29 15:22, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 13:05, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 10:12, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 08:56, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 01:41, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-12-29 01:22, critter wrote:
It's just a broken ankle, it's not like he's got Parkinson's syndrome or something.

No. Not a broken ankle.



That was the report I read after the fight. Still, better a jacked up leg than to end up with Parkinson's syndrome like many boxers. My point was that it's still safer to be an UFC fighter than a boxer, statistically. Not to disparage either sport.

We don't know that yet.


+1

UFC hasn't been around long enough for us to judge its safety vs. boxing's.


It's been more than twenty years, I think we have enough data for a valid statistical comparison.

I'd like to see the number of ex boxers with Parkinsons' versus the number
of ex UFC practitioners with Parkinsons'.
I want top see it as a percentage of practitioners in each discipline.
Not just the, Ali has it, and Silva doesn't, ********.
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes!
When do we want it?
C*nt!
magicfish
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Critter, with all due respect. For long term effects of being beaten about the head, ya need old guys. Ali, Quarry, etc.
I don't know of any 70 year old UFC combatants.
General_Magician
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Magicfish,

I watched the first fight on youtube between Chris Wiedman and Anderson Silva and I didn't see any dishonorable actions on Silva's part. I did see where Anderson Silva was trying to mess with Chris's head though and Anderson was also a bit cocky and paid the price for it. He certainly deserved to be KOed for being cocky and genuinely failing to respect his opponent's punching ability. Messing with your opponent's head is also just part of the game and is not necessarily dishonorable in and of itself. Fights in the octagon are ultimately won in the mind and so psychological warfare against an opponent is just par for the course though some actions that are on the extreme can be considered dishonorable. Here was the video I watched: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SS77cgAjNw . Does this video show what you were talking about?
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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magicfish
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But I'm noticing a major problem in mma that could really mess these fighters up in later years. (Which we wont know for a long time).
Im noticing guys unconscious on there feet and then taking one or two more. Which is okay- samething happens in boxing, but in boxing the puncher returns to his corner for a count to begin. In UFC, the puncher then mounts the fallen pugilist and hammers him as hard and fast as he can before the ref stops it.
Now contrary to Dannys condescending mean spirited assessment of me, I quite enjoy this gladiatorial combat. However, I'm concerned for their future moreso than that of boxers for the reason I described.
The fighters are receiving an alarming number of undefended blows to the head- each one with knockout ability.
We wont know the effects of this for many more years. But unless Mr. White instructs his referees to act more quickly than they have been, I'm afraid the future is bleak for these men, and it is only a matter of time before deaths begin to occur.
magicfish
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On 2013-12-29 15:43, General_Magician wrote:
Magicfish,

I watched the first fight on youtube between Chris Wiedman and Anderson Silva and I didn't see any dishonorable actions on Silva's part. I did see where Anderson Silva was trying to mess with Chris's head though and Anderson was also a bit cocky and paid the price for it. He certainly deserved to be KOed for being cocky and genuinely failing to respect his opponent's punching ability. Messing with your opponent's head is also just part of the game and is not necessarily dishonorable in and of itself. Fights in the octagon are ultimately won in the mind and so psychological warfare against an opponent is just par for the course though some actions that are on the extreme can be considered dishonorable. Here was the video I watched: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SS77cgAjNw . Does this video show what you were talking about?

It was very unsportsmanlike, and goes against the teaching of any martial arts ive been exposed to. According to the martial artists I know, to disrespect an opponent in this fashion is dishonorable. The capacity crowd agreed. They booed him out of the building. As they should have.
magicfish
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Id like to add that as a lifelong fan of boxing there was a time not so long ago that I opposed MMA fighting. But I kept an open mind and watched a few titanic battles that had me leaping to my feet with arms raised.
Jolly exciting indeed.
magicfish
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Id like to continue as an mma fan, but in my opinion, the safety of the fighters is too much at risk and some improvements must be made.
critter
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Freddie Roach is 53 and Royce Gracie is 47. Not a huge age difference. And Roach has been diagnosed with Parkinson's for quite some time, which he attributes to being hit in the head.

According to some sources, an average of ten boxers die per year from boxing related injuries. The lowest estimate I've seen is four per year. In the twenty years the UFC has been around not one of their fighters have died. Based on this information, one is statistically more dangerous than the other. Make your own decision which.

As I said, I'm not disparaging either sport. I enjoy both and was in the boxing club at my school. So it's pretty sad that people are resorting to cussing at me now.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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General_Magician
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It was very unsportsmanlike, and goes against the teaching of any martial arts ive been exposed to. According to the martial artists I know, to disrespect an opponent in this fashion is dishonorable. The capacity crowd agreed. They booed him out of the building. As they should have.


Some might view Silva's actions in the first fight as unsportsmanlike, but me, I just view it as part of the game and a way in which a fighter tries to get into an opponent's head and break him down psychologically in order to win the fight. Breaking your opponent down mentally is just as important, if not more important than breaking him down physically. It's fair game in a fight. To me, unsportsmanlike or dishonorable behavior would be disrespecting your opponent after the fight is over or doing something that is more extreme during the fight that violates the rules.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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magicfish
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You are entitled to your opinion, general, but gentlemanly conduct during the fight is paramount.
Dannydoyle
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The ONLY thing you can do in boxing is hit. Mostly in the head.

Also many boxing problems come from the amount of hits in sparring.

Many more mma fights end in submitting your opponent. No boxing match does. Boxers take way more punishment than an mma fighter.

As for statistical comparison it is not too hard.

But I ask again what could or should Dana White have done different?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
General_Magician
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On 2013-12-29 16:38, magicfish wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion, general, but gentlemanly conduct during the fight is paramount.


Chris's coach brought in a guy to act like Anderson Silva mocking his opponent during the fight as part of his training for the lead up to this second fight. Plus, he was taught that check that broke Silva's leg. Chris's coach did a good job of preparing him for the fight and recognized the mental aspect of the fight as well as Silva's deadly kicks. So, you can see, coaches and fighters do prepare for the mental aspect of the fight and study their opponent. It was not something unexpected that Silva did in the first fight and he has done this before. It's part of Silva's mental game in the fight and the coaches of opponents fighting against Silva will prepare counter-measures for Silva's kicks and mental games and seek to destroy Silva's mental game, which quite frankly speaking, Chis did an excellent job. I just hated to see Silva get hurt that bad.

I never like to see a fighter get hurt that bad. I think it's terrible when that happens and it's terrible what happened to Silva. I certainly don't believe Chris intended to break Silva's leg and I am sure he felt bad about it as well. However, it's an unfortunate reality of the sport. The sport itself is brutal at it's core. You just hate to see bad things happen to great fighters, but it does and it can happen to anybody who steps into the Octagon. Nobody is invincible, not even the great champs like Silva.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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