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Dennis Michael
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Saw Lone Survivor yesterday, but can't describe it. Liked it

It's a mix of past war movies, Green Beret (Reason we are over there), Platoon, (likeable guys die), GI Jane (Seal training) and Full Metal Jacket, (Seal training, brothers in arms)

It didn't have the emotional effect I got from Platoon and Saving Private Ryan. To date my favorite is "We were Soldiers" with Mel Gibson. I was in Nam at this time.

Some other war movies I couldn't relate/connect "fully" with the story line but did like them them ie. Midway, Pearl Harbor, Tora Tora Tora.

The first half of Hamburger Hill brought back many memories, not the ending with taking Hamburger Hill.

Lone Survivor is worthy to see and I'll watch it again when it comes to Cable. I also like the lead character's movies. (Mark Wahlberg)
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Wow, I can't believe I had forgotten about "We were Soldiers". You're right, that was a great movie.
mastermindreader
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Dennis-

With the exception of The Green Berets, which was a blatant propaganda film that had little relation to reality, I liked all of the films you mentioned.

I'd also include Apocalypse Now, one of my favorite films in the genre along with Johnny Got His Gun and All Quiet on the Western Front.

I think that Lone Survivor is up there, though.
General_Magician
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Quote:
I'd also include Apocalypse Now, one of my favorite films in the genre along with Johnny Got His Gun and All Quiet on the Western Front.


All Quiet on the Western Front is a good one and I think pretty accurate description in many ways of real war (people losing their minds and ending up in a psyche ward, then the use of poison gas and people getting caught in the shell holes where the chemicals settled, then waiting in bunkers while getting hit with a overwhelming and violent artillery barrage). I liked the second "All Quiet on the Western Front" the best. Especially when the soldier returns home and is listening to others discuss the war and how out of touch everybody else seems to be with the reality on the front lines. The book is excellent as well. If I remember correctly, the book was written by a World War I vet. I thought it was a good book and very accurate in it's description. Granted, every war is different, but then every war also shares common traits.

World War II guys had it pretty rough too. It is considered the "good war" but listening to the WWII guys talk, there was nothing good about it and you had a lot of pysche casualties that came out of that war as well. You just don't hear about it as much. Nam guys brought out a lot of issues that had to be addressed such improving care at the VA, PTSD, Agent Orange, the mistreatment of veterans. Nam guys improved the lives of the future generation of vets. So far, I am pleased with how the VA has treated me and I feel I have been treated well by the American public and that the American public supports the troops. It's the all volunteer army these days, but I feel I have been treated fairly and been treated well and part of that is thanks to the Nam vets improving the lives of veterans.

Lone Survivor is my favorite movie because it's from the war I served in. So I am bit biased. But my other two favorites were "All Quiet on the Western Front" and "We were soldiers." I think "We Were Soldiers" highlighted the incompetence of the politics of the Vietnam War, yet highlighted the competence of the soldiers who fought very well in Vietnam during that battle.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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mastermindreader
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The scene you are talking about in "All Quiet on the Western Front" is in the original novel as well as in the later television version with Richard Thomas.

And yes, the author, Erich Maria Remarque, was a WWI German army veteran. I was particularly enthralled with the story because my maternal grandfather, Erich Wolff, who was born in 1900, was drafted into the Kaiser's infantry and often told us stories that closely paralleled those told by Remarque.

Most memorable was my grandfather's description of arriving in a train's boxcar near the front lines in the middle of the night and in pouring rain. The ground shook with thunderous howitzer fire and men and horse drawn wagons seemed to be running amok without any semblance of order. Just sixteen years old and blindly firing a machine gun at the unseen enemy, he became an old man almost over night.

The original film, though released in 1930, is still rated number 7 on the AFI's list of greatest "epic" films of all time. The scene that always comes to my mind is the one where Paul Baumer, the protagonist and narrator, stabs a French soldier and spends the night in a bomb crater with him, first watching him die a slow and painful death and then looking at photos of family and a fiance in the Frenchman's wallet. He spends the rest of the night crying and begging for forgiveness from the dead man.

And when Baumer himself is shot to death, the news reports the next day simply read "All quiet on the Western Front" or, in German, "Im Westen, nichts Neues" (Nothing new in the West), underscoring the meaninglessness of his death, and the pointlessness of the war.

"Johnny Got His Gun," on the other hand is the story of an American WW1 veteran who has lost his arms, legs, eyes, ears, tongue and teeth, and breaths through a tracheotomy tube. In his hospital bed he can only communicate by tapping out Morse code with his head. He pleads to either be killed or put into a glass box and taken on tour around the country so that people can see the reality of war.

The entire film (as in Dalton Trumbo's novel) takes place in his mind as we hear his thoughts and watch his memories and dreams.

Probably the greatest anti-war novel (and film) ever written and should be required reading (and viewing) by all politicians who would send their country's young men off to war.
Dennis Michael
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Bob, I am a John Wayne fan. The movie was far removed from what actually happened, however, the plot, why we were there, was what I was told, for the South Vietnamese people.

I am also A Rambo Fan.
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"I want, what they want, and every other guy who came over here and spilled his guts and gave everything he had, wants! For our country to love us as much as we love it! That's what I want!" Rambo Part 2


There were many other war movies I liked, mostly WW II.

Black Hawk Down, was similar to Lone Survivor.

Apocalypse Now is to dark for my taste in movies, and not a fan of anti-war movies. I am deeply entrenched in Patriotism.

I like your post General-Magician
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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2014-01-16 17:04, Dennis Michael wrote:


Apocalypse Now is to dark for my taste in movies, and not a fan of anti-war movies. I am deeply entrenched in Patriotism.


And that's where we differ greatly. As I wrote earlier, being anti-war is often far more patriotic than being a fervent war hawk.

In the words of Robert E Lee:

Quote:
The war... was an unnecessary condition of affairs, and might have been avoided if forebearance and wisdom had been practiced on both sides.


Quote:
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.


What if EVERYONE was anti-war? Or, as Bertolt Brecht once asked, "What if they gave a war and nobody came?" Then the world could properly call itself civilized.
magicfish
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My favourite is the Deer Hunter.
mastermindreader
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On patriotism:

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Teddy Roosevelt a war militarist and war monger by any standard may not be the first person you'd expect to utter this quote:

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. IT DOES NOT MEAN to stand by the President or any other public office save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country".

Maybe that is the meaning of the famous dictum, "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels". Advocating true patriotism certainly does not make one a scoundrel; the dictum refers only to the pseudo-patriotism Teddy Roosevelt spoke about: what "scoundrels" do is to use their own proclamations of patriotism to bully others into going along with certain policies -- policies that, more often than not, turn out to be against the true interests of America.


http://www.skeptic.ca/meaning_of_patriotism.htm

And, yes, I consider myself to be as patriotic as anyone here.
General_Magician
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Quote:
Black Hawk Down, was similar to Lone Survivor.


I forgot about Black Hawk Down, but that was an awesome movie too! I really liked that film. It ranks up there as one of my favorite war films as well.

Quote:
What if EVERYONE was anti-war? Or, as Bertolt Brecht once asked, "What if they gave a war and nobody came?" Then the world could properly call itself civilized.


In the movie Platoon, Barnes once remarked: "There is the way things ought to be and then their is the way things as they really are." And the way things as they really are is that it's not idealistic world we live in. And because we don't live in an idealistic world, the best way to ensure the peace, is to prepare for war. The Romans had it right when they said "if you want peace then prepare for war." An important and key component to the prevention of war is deterrence. The major reason why we were attacked on 9/11 was because Bin Laden thought he could get away with it. He got away with the other terror attacks in the past prior to 9/11, but terrorists like Bin Laden thought they could get away with doing something like that to us. He was wrong of course and very stupid to think he could get away with it, but deterrence had failed and thus, 9/11 happened.

I think the importance of prevention and how deterrence plays a role in the prevention of war is as George Orwell put it: "People sleep peaceable in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

A worrying thing though I have seen in the news today is the Air Force missile officer scandal. That harms our ability to deter and prevent war and the missile officers have a very important job.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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landmark
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... because we don't live in an idealistic world, the best way to ensure the peace, is to prepare for war.

Because we don't live in an idealistic world, the best way to ensure the peace, is to disbelieve those who constantly cry for war using other people's bodies to wage it.
mastermindreader
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Being prepared to defend oneself isn't at all the same as attacking those who pose no threat to our country. Reread my previous quote of Theodore Roosevelt.
tommy
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What George Orwell didn't tell you was both sides are told "People sleep peaceable in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." while they at the same time finance both sides. Then they start a war in Vietnam and make fortunes supplying both sides and at the same time they tell the noble armies, it's not theirs to reason why but theirs to do and die. Then they make some glorified films about it to make a shilling on the side. Mind you in George Orwell's 1984 he did tell you, there is an inner and outer party. And as we say in the occult, the interrelationship between the inner and outer worlds and our apparent ability to control either one with the other is the very definition of magic and sorcery. And when we learn to listen to our hearts the intelligence of the universe will be ours. For only $19.84
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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mastermindreader
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Such is the Law of Thelema.
General_Magician
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Not to get off topic, but I can't help but say that it's not too hard to see why some of the Air Force missile officers were cheating and then two got caught up in a drug scandal. Not too long ago the commanding general of our nuclear forces while visiting Russia was clowning around, getting drunk, playing the guitar while drunk on stage and talking to hot russian babes who were probably trying to get as much valuable intelligence information as they could out of him. By setting that kind of example for his subordinates to follow, it's not too hard to see why the missile forces, which here recently were under his leadership are currently substandard. Everything starts with the leadership. The fish rots from the head. Hopefully Obama will take his cue and start demanding generals that live up to a high standard, especially ones in charge of nuclear forces.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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LobowolfXXX
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The character of most people, I imagine, is pretty well set before they enter the military. Not everything starts with the leadership.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
arthur stead
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Some of my favorite war movies (I'm a WW2 kind of guy):

In Which We Serve
Das Boot (german version)
Bridge On The River Kwai
Guns of Navarone
Arthur Stead
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General_Magician
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On 2014-01-16 20:56, LobowolfXXX wrote:
The character of most people, I imagine, is pretty well set before they enter the military. Not everything starts with the leadership.


I disagree. Everything starts with the leadership. If the troops are performing poorly, it's because the leaders are not doing their job and failing to set the example. Curtis LeMay probably wouldn't have had this happen under his watch.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2014-01-16 20:57, arthur stead wrote:
Some of my favorite war movies (I'm a WW2 kind of guy):

In Which We Serve
Das Boot (german version)
Bridge On The River Kwai
Guns of Navarone


I love all of those, particularly the full length German version of "Das Boot." Another submarine movie that I enjoyed was "Run Silent, Run Deep."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2014-01-16 20:58, General_Magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-16 20:56, LobowolfXXX wrote:
The character of most people, I imagine, is pretty well set before they enter the military. Not everything starts with the leadership.


I disagree. Everything starts with the leadership. If the troops are performing poorly, it's because the leaders are not doing their job and failing to set the example. Curtis LeMay probably wouldn't have had this happen under his watch.


So, if you had been on the team, you would have done the same things and been embroiled in the same scandal. It's a good thing you're a magician now!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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