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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Radak looks into his scrying mirror (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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spookyone
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Quote:
On 2014-01-29 21:44, David Eichler wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-29 19:22, spookyone wrote:
I keep switching between the two paths. I kind of prefer the reader's path but my only concern is if I choose that path, will I miss out on learning the m@rking system?


Just buy both books Smile


LOL true, but I've only got so much money as a part-timer, plus I just bought a bunch of stuff Smile
Slartibartfaust
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Quote:
On 2014-01-30 20:34, spookyone wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-29 21:44, David Eichler wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-01-29 19:22, spookyone wrote:
I keep switching between the two paths. I kind of prefer the reader's path but my only concern is if I choose that path, will I miss out on learning the m@rking system?


Just buy both books Smile


LOL true, but I've only got so much money as a part-timer, plus I just bought a bunch of stuff Smile


I hear that!
I do have some incoming funds tomorrow...hmmm both books and the Back design poster would be sweet....
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Christopher Gould
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So we have covered the Readers path, somewhat.
I wanted to describe this angle first as I think it will ultimately give the good folk on this forum the most to think about.
I also want to get across, that as light and fun as the cards look they are not just 'a trick'.
However, if you see yourself as a magician, you should read the magicians book first, as starting with the readers book will only confuse and enrage those with no experience in this field. Those with a foot in both camps (or which there are a few here) will be able to blissfully skip between the two without breaking out into a sweat.

So what can we expect from the Magician’s path.
Zoltar (the ancestor of Kadar) was originally designed as a Magic ‘trick’ (I am restoring the word trick here to indicate any form of magical deception, the word ‘effect’ I will use to denounce that no deception is involved, maybe ‘affect’ is more apposite). This Zoltar trick had the context of cold reading. By dint of a bs (and some degree of BS) the magician convinced his victim that he knows all about her. Well, that was the original idea. However, users of the card (and at some point myself also) began to discover something interesting, it worked just as well without the trickery . So the follow-up; Kadar, was totally devoid of any magic trick at all. It was (and is) pure cold reading, and as many will testify; it works.

You could knock me down with a feather!

So this pure tradition is continued into the reader’s book. However, in the reader’s book I have taken the rather foolhardy decision to just let rip and give the full system and philosophy behind Kadar. I will toss this through the door and keep the engine running around the back.

For the magician’s book I wanted to reintroduce some solid hot reading. So a device exists whereby you can know exactly what the ‘sitter’ thinks about herself and her situation, before the reading even starts. You do not know her exact question (unless you use other methods which will be known to you) and you do not know the detail of her thoughts. But this is to your favour, it encourages you to act like the real thing . If you come out with ‘you are thinking of leaving your husband, but you are worried that the other guy is even uglier,’ – it will be too direct and the audience will assume that you have used deception to arrive at this ‘too easy’ answer. Far better to make more general symbolic references. ‘I feel that this is about a relationship’ ‘There is some confusion over a choice that you have to make’ – and so forth. There is also a delightful game for you to play; that of discovering the detail and the actual question during the process of the reading. Those of you with experience of performing readings will not need any more information on this.

So the central core of the system for readers is a method for discovering actual information (and those of you who have attempted to guess what this may be will only ever guessed fragments).
However, it is not a ‘one trick pony’ and you can use the deck in many, many different ways, as well as discovering your own. There are also many different contexts and experiments to try out.

If this is a major pillar of the system, it is not the only one. More important to me is that the system can be used to reinvent existing magic. This is a deck of cards, it behaves like a deck of cards and has all of the structure of a deck of cards, albeit presented in a way which will not give rise to the suspicion that this is a ‘card-trick’. This in itself is a very important point and more than enough justification for using the deck. However, the deck has meaning – each card has meaning. Also the Kadar cards are used to connect with the audience on a deep, meaningful and intimate level. These qualities are carried over in any card trick that you perform with this deck.
This bears thinking about. I have seen too many arid performances, designed to belittle the audience with the ‘look how clever I am’ ego of the magician, or pointless juggling with cards (there is a wonderful paragraph on this in your copy of Tarbell). I think such an approach alienates and bores most modern audiences. But perform something that is based on them, on their lives and their concerns, something that touches them on a deep, emotional level and you have a performance that engages your audience and ensures that it is not easily forgotten. Understand the material on both paths and this performance can have a point and be transformative.

I guarantee that you will be getting your old card tricks out and reinventing them in this context, I do not think that you will look at cards in quite the same way again either.
I want people who think this may just be another m*****d d**k with cool pictures on, to realise that it has far more thought invested in it than this.

I am very excited to get these cards to you all, particularly in this more open minded community, as I believe you will use them well.

One more instalment from me, before I return to the shadows – so any questions, fire away, I will use my last post here to attempt to answer them.
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com
Boudje
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Any comments on the size of the booklet?

It's a 3 pages think, 12 pages thing, 30 page thing?
The Greek
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Boudje Apart from saying that the content will be crammed with information, we haven't decided on the size of the booklets yet. We are more concerned at this stage on getting the deck organised and books written.
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Quote:
On 2014-01-31 04:46, Boudje wrote:
Any comments on the size of the booklet?

It's a 3 pages think, 12 pages thing, 30 page thing?

Surely it's the content rather than the page count that's important?
Voodini - cold reading, past life regressions, remote viewing, Q&A, palm reading, bizarre & seance...
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horus1
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Based on Chris's other offerings, I'm certain the books will be an in depth study and well worth every penny.
Personally, I suggest getting both books. The deck looks to have great possibilities. Why not explore
It's full potential? It's a nominal increase in funds to add both books to your pledge and it helps the campaign.
Consider the possibility that if it doesn't fund... There are no books and no deck!
We are not purchasing from an online store. We're investing in whether or not this deck / books / case
becomes a reality.
Christopher Gould
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It will be 2000 pages, but there will only be one letter on each page.
I am joking of course, although I did hear through the grapevine that some mentalist or other put out a hypnotism book doing just this!

In the dim and dark past when I used to grade dissertations (grade human beings!... man - did I really used to do that!?) - anyway, my students used to think in this way, I think they sometimes assumed that we either just counted the pages or put their work on the scales with no consideration of content.

Although Costos is right, and at this stage the concern is with the cards themselves (working on the jokers today - remember that mysterion guy? You may be interested in meeting his dark brother too!). However your question does prompt me to talk a little about the books, and joking aside, it is a question that I am sure many will want an answer to. This matter was my intention for my final post, so I will make this now. However, I will hang around to answer any further questions in the remaining days.

There are two paths and each path will have two books; an introduction and a book for the advanced practitioner.

The aim of the Introduction book is to make it as short as I possibly can. The hardest part of writing it is the constant revisions to see if a word cannot be chipped off here or there, without losing the content. The introduction will just give you enough to use the cards for whichever path you choose. The aim is also to keep the price down as low as possible at the moment these books are going for £6 which is stupidly low considering the content, but this is aimed at rewarding people who have backed the project.

Following these two books will be the two advanced books. These will revisit the exercises and the central reading on each path, but in exhaustive depth, aimed at deepening your knowledge of the system and making you an expert Kadar practitioner.

I was reading Stephen's post on dealers making work economically available and found myself in full agreement with him. Certainly we will achieve this economic aim with the deck; as although this is a full deck of full colour cards printed on Bicycle stock they will sell at around the price of an ordinary deck of cards! This philosophy will be carried through to the the books. Having a two-tier system means that everyone can have an introduction to either path at a price that will not hurt the most shallow pocket. Readers will then not only be able to perform with the deck, but will be able to make an informed choice as to whether they wish to continue their studies and financially reward me for the considerable amount of work and the value of the content.

There is one more consideration with using this two tier system, and that is to protects it's secrets from those who are not ready to receive them. I certainly want as many people as possible to 'unlock' the deck. However, I also want to protect the professional performer who may wish to use Kadar in a paid performance. As something of an accidental performer myself, I would like to turn up to a gig, perform a Kadar reading and have someone say - 'hey, I have some of those'. But then turn around and say; 'Ah, yes but......' In this respect I am old school and believe that the greater secrets of magic should be carefully passed on, rather than be clumsily revealed by some dude in a bandanna on youtube. Getting the balance between entry level accessibility and encouraging new blood, whilst maintaining the value of our art is important I think. Another thing that will discourage the casual browser is that (like my posts here), there will be just too many words, and they will switch off naturally anyway. ***

Still here? Good.

The aim of the introduction is just that; an introduction and will sell at the same price as the cards themselves. They will also be sold separately by Alchemy Moon, so people who just want to buy a visually arresting deck of cards may do so. Our aim is to get as many people owning and using the cards as we can (owners of the the advanced readers book will understand why). So at the end of reading either of the introduction books you will be an initiate on the chosen path, you will be able to use the cards effectively and with confidence and have a few 'routines' under your belt.

The aim of the Advanced book is to fully explore the system, the principles and the philosophy behind it. The reader will already have the framework in place from reading the introduction and new material will therefore just fall into place. It will be presented as a series of graduated exercises, games and experiments aimed at developing the qualities from your chosen path. At the end of this book you will know all that you can know, or at least all that I know.

There is something of the pied piper in the Kadar project. Kadar is luring people in with bright colours and sticky toffee apples, carefully selecting and taking these few people away from the noise and bright lights of the fun-fair to reveal the greater truth, the final chapter of my work for this community.

However, this is all in the future. At the moment the Kadri are deciding if this project should go ahead or not. If it gets funded then it is an indication that the time is right and that it should happen. If it does not get funded, then the Kadri have decided! BTW, I haven't gone nuts just yet and really believe in the existence of these mystic beings - I made it all up! (oooh, the voices in my head!) But still; if it does not fund, it will not trouble me greatly as what happens is what should happen.

So, in the last few days, this decision is yours. In this light, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of you who have gotten behind this project, both financially and in spirit. I would like to especially thank all of you who have put in what has been a considerable about of work in getting the word out. There are still potentially thousands of people out there who would want to see this project funded, and it is all a matter of these people knowing about it. So your work in this regard is having an enormous effect and will remain vital in the last few days.
Thank you all again.

Chris
____________________________________________________________________________

*** addendum

This is nothing specific to the Kadar deck, but I think it is an important point for magic as a whole.
On the comments box on the Kickstarter page, somone asked is the book was going to be a full book or just a few page pamphlet, it seemed a reasonable question. However, it irritated me - as the implication was 'am I going to get my money's worth?' - In my head I was screaming 'Six quid man - it is SIX QUID!'. I come from the days when magic was an artform; jealously guarded secrets that were passed on from master to pupil, secrets that were valued in term of their worth in earning the recipient a wage from said material. Now it seems to me that magic is just a hobby, a deluge of cheap pdf's or even, as we see now, free pdfs, copied, torrented, youtubed and generally freely available. Most of this material, as we have all learned - is ****e, written by some kid in his bedroom who has never and will never practice the art and will certainly never perform.
Of course, the world moves on and there are real advantages to the freedom of information offered by the internet age. How else could I have a brainstorming session with someone in Florida or have a secret forum with trusted creatives from 6 countries? The access to information stimulates creative thought, and this is good for our art. At the same time, when we see £6 as being a 'bit steep' for a creator's lifetime of thinking (and every creation is the result of the creators entire life), I do think that then we need to step back and consider how much this cheapens our art.

Regardless of how we perform magic, we are all 'Mystery Performers', as such we should be very concerned about preserving this mystery .
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com
Christopher Gould
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I don't want anyone to misread due to censorship - adults here will understand that '****e' does not mean 'four star material'!
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com
necroloid
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It could be a few tips on readings scribbled on napkin with eyeliner, and it would still be worth the money!!
george1953
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Just upgraded my pledge, come on lets get this done. 5 days to go !
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
Balaram
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Chris, I noted that post also, it did seem a bit rude and blunt. For those of us who know you and your work, it would have been. But consider, if one did NOT know your prior offering to the magic community, it is a reasonable question, "Am I gonna get my moneys' worth", and by asking it so bluntly, perhaps it was a bit of a test for the (to him) unknown seller--will this guy slam me back? Or will he show leadership qualities, ie be the trustworthy, professional guy who stays calm in the face of a little criticism.
And you did pass that test BTW.
So no worries brother, this guy will be just as pleased as the rest of us when he receives the final product.

And the final amount, on closing day, will be BP 10,123 Smile Bill Z.
Slartibartfaust
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Personally I find the price of the decks and ALL the extras, especially the books
remarkably reasonable

such an unbelievable value, I kinda wish they cost more, for many of the reasons listed by the creator above
and because if they cost more...perhaps the goal would have been reached faster
:)


Shawn
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Slartibartfaust
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Pledges just leaped to almost 9.5k

Whohhooo!!!

The Kadri are stirring Smile
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spookyone
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Quote:
On 2014-01-31 08:12, Christopher Gould wrote:
I don't want anyone to misread due to censorship - adults here will understand that '****e' does not mean 'four star material'!


haha it too me a moment but then I remembered that you're British and I figured it out Smile
espkeith
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Quote:
On 2014-01-31 12:45, Slartibartfaust wrote:
Pledges just leaped to almost 9.5k

Whohhooo!!!

The Kadri are stirring Smile

Thank you, thank you. I'll take full credit for that increase. Of which I deserve none, of course. Smile
espkeith
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Forgot to add my 12 quid for the two books. Maybe that'll get us to our goal, now. Smile
horus1
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If there is going to be a secondary, more advanced book for each path.... why not put that up on kickstarter now as an extra?
I'm sure others like myself would spring for it and it could kick the campaign to the finish line?
spookyone
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Added another 9 pounds for a second deck Smile
Voodini
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Wow! So pleased to see this almost at the finishing line! I was worried for a while. Looks like all is going to be well. Smile
Voodini - cold reading, past life regressions, remote viewing, Q&A, palm reading, bizarre & seance...
www.readerofminds.co.uk
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