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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2014-01-30 03:08, C.J. wrote: I've always considered sightless vision to be a version of clairvoyance. But, if presented as an example of dermo-optical perception (seeing with the fingertips) it is a legitimate separate category. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
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On 2014-01-30 01:40, yachanin wrote: doesn't sound like the sort of thing I'd be interested in doing, but who knows!
I've asked to be banned
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Nowadays, the various categories of ESP are generally lumped under the more inclusive term "psi."
So in the modern sense, it could be argued that there are only three basic types of effects in mentalism (based on how they are presented)- psi, psychological, and physiological. |
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Randy Rodgers New user 14 Posts |
This is really good discussion from really great minds
The list as it stands now and is open to discussion: Precognition Telepathy Psychokinesis Clairvoyance Psychological Influence. (C.J & Mr.Cassidy) Super Memory Dermo (or derma) -Optical (Mr Cassidy) Now as for readings I believe this could be lumped along with either telepathy or even reverse influence as the participant is influencing the performer, as for mediumistic I believe this can also be lumped with telepathy as you are speaking to the spirit and the they are speaking to you through a telepathic connection and seems rather similar to the " I'm not the magician , you are!" Premise where it's not the performer that has the power but another being that the performer can communicate with
Randy Rodgers
"It's harder to amaze those who are used to amazing things." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Mediumistic phenomena such as slate writing wouldn't be telepathy. Nor would they be an example of PK by the performer, but rather by an external spirit entity.
Of course, you could use the broader term, "paranormal phenomena," to cover these types of effects. |
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
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On 2014-01-30 07:38, mastermindreader wrote: I completely agree.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts |
What about EVP?
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Randy Rodgers New user 14 Posts |
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On 2014-01-29 21:49, MatthewSims wrote: I have considered Hypnosis but mentalism employs different methods Similar to a card magician and a card cheat both use a similar premise and even the same prop " the mind " But both are vastly different
Randy Rodgers
"It's harder to amaze those who are used to amazing things." |
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Randy Rodgers New user 14 Posts |
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On 2014-01-30 15:50, 0pus wrote: I would not consider this as a basic effect as it's merely the perception and interpretation of the listener and an effect by the performer
Randy Rodgers
"It's harder to amaze those who are used to amazing things." |
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Randy Rodgers New user 14 Posts |
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On 2014-01-30 14:58, mastermindreader wrote: I have considered this and spoke among other mentalists, we came to the theory that mediumistic effects employ the basic effects I have listed, either by the performer or the "spirit", but Mediumistic itself , I believe is more the performance style in which these effects are executed.
Randy Rodgers
"It's harder to amaze those who are used to amazing things." |
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Randy Rodgers New user 14 Posts |
Quote:
On 2014-01-30 16:12, Randy Rodgers wrote: * rather than an effect by the performer
Randy Rodgers
"It's harder to amaze those who are used to amazing things." |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
"Now as for readings I believe this could be lumped along with either telepathy or even reverse influence as the participant is influencing the performer"
I don't agree with this... readings are delivered via a multitude of ways... psychics will be using a form of clairvoyance in a way I suppose, but others will be straight interpretors, and/or using their intuition...others just say its its translating one metaphor into another, then there's using a baseline of rules and your imagination...plus there's mixtures of all of the above and more besides... then there's purists who only do readings and nothing else, other's that do mentalism and readings, people who interweave readings into their presentations and a few other ways and means... but its not telepathy, and readings, scrying and so on have existed independantly from mentalism, as well as crossing paths and mingling throughout history, one way or another...
I've asked to be banned
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2014-01-30 16:17, Randy Rodgers wrote: Performance style is also applicable to every other effect on the list. I agree with Corinda that mediumistic effects are a definite category, but as I said, nowadays a more encompassing category for such effects would be miscellaneous "paranormal phenomena." (which would also include EVP, etc. as mentioned in a previous post) |
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Johannes L. Special user Sweden 692 Posts |
Remote Viewing, perhaps?
Effect: The mentalist memorize any kind of information in less than a second. $5 |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Remote viewing is basically a form of clairvoyance (clear vision).
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yachanin Inner circle Cleveland, OH 2105 Posts |
I found the list to which I referred (it's only a portion of a post I had copied when I saw it, but there wasn't a mention of the original author). It is only tangentially related to the discussion, but I've reproduced it nonetheless:
"...had said that all mentalism could be placed in 5 categories ( with many sub categories) 1. Mindreading: spec thinks of something you read their mind. 2. Predictions: you predict what a spec is going to do or think. 3. Telekinesis and psychokinesis: bending stuff with mind, making specs feel something that isn't there and so on and so on. 4. Cold reading: knowing stuff about spec without them even thinking it and such 5. remote viewing: See what the spec sees but Malchat said "Icy_rabbit's advice to increase the suspense for both you and the audience is golden (stop doing surefire effects in front of the audience, rather involve them in experiments with uncertain but interesting outcomes.) Your breakdown of the classic effects into five categories suggests that you may be overlooking the infinite presentations that are possible with these simple revelations. Each time you do an effect, you usually have to explain how you're accomplishing it. You're not exposing any actual methods, but you give them something to think about. Don't just give them the what (chair prediction, ACAAN, reading etc.), give them the why and how too... that's what makes it interesting. Instead of working from the effect outward, start with a good 'plot hook' and then find an effect to match. Here are some 'hooks' you can hang a mentalism effect on... and this is only a short list: universal unconcious/akashic record (all that occurs is recorded in a spiritual dimension) amulets (keeping a charm close will affect you) astral projection (going somewhere without moving physically) channeling (permitting an entity to control you) scrying/reading (and its infinte subplots) biokinesis (mentally influencing bioloigcal processes) discarnate entities (ghosts, angels, aliens, invisible to most but not to you) dowsing (divine the location of an object) lucid dreaming (conciously affecting your dreamscape) glossolalia (speaking in tongues) Kirlian photography (ghostly images caught on film) mediumship (trafficing with entities) morphic resonance (tapping the recial memory of all living things) orgone energy (manipulate the ambient energy of the Earth) poltergeists (things go bump) psychometry (object sensing) telekinesis (things move) teleportation (things move instantaneously) automatism (sometimes other forces animate your body) pre/postcognition (know the future or the past) feng shui (the location of people and objects determines the flow of energy) anthrometry (what does physical appearance say about character?) biorythms (all our behavior is cyclic and predictable) telepathy (instant or displaced) 'blue sense' (do cops have unique instincts?) body language (what do people communicate without speaking?) coincidence (playing with probabilities) pyro/cryokinesis (changing temperature by will alone) hallucinations (can you trust what you perceive?) Naturopathy (the body is completely self-healing) crytomnesia (hidden memories sometimes come back to haunt us) subliminals (powerful impressions that go unnoticed) dermo-optic perception (a blindfold act) hypnosis/suggestion (the subconcious obeys) inattentional blindness (by focusing on X in the distance, you're missing Y right in front of you) Mozart effect (improve brainpower by listening to classical music) NLP (you can achieve/communicate/perceive anything with proper application) clairvoyance/clairaudience (psychic perception) deja vu (new experiences that feel like a memory)" Regards, Steve
"Impossible? Your audience will think so..." TM
Thought Association Card Triangulation Word Search Detective Christmas Eve Sights - Start A Family Tradition |
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
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On 2014-01-30 16:17, Randy Rodgers wrote: Then it's worth working out whether you are interested in defining a list of effects (what the audience perceives is the power at work) or techniques (how it is actually done). I argue that the conversation so far has been about the former. I would also argue that defining a list of the basic techniques of mentalism is rather moot, as there are so many ways to skin a cat, and at the same time, a good number of the effects listed so far could be achieved with the same single technique.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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Randy Rodgers New user 14 Posts |
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On 2014-01-31 01:05, C.J. wrote: You are correct in your " many ways to skin a cat" and " a good number of effects listed so far could be achieved with the same single technique" My question refers to what effects are created from the perception of the audience. Exactly that " what power is perceived to be in use in order to achieve this result Much like in card magic a DL can cause the out come of transformation or transposition. I want to know what "powers" for want of a better word is the performer suggesting he uses. What are they at their basic level.
Randy Rodgers
"It's harder to amaze those who are used to amazing things." |
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
In which case you've contradicted yourself with regards to Mediumistic/Paranormal phenomena:
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I have considered this and spoke among other mentalists, we came to the theory that mediumistic effects employ the basic effects I have listed, either by the performer or the "spirit", but Mediumistic itself , I believe is more the performance style in which these effects are executed. If the audience is ascribing the working of the mystery to another entity or spirit, it's a different effect and belongs on your list. The workings may be the same as PK, but the effect is different. You've just raised the word "Powers" - in this case, the power of moving something with your mind is different to the power of communicating with or commanding spirits. I don't like "spirit" mentalism, and don't perform it, but I can't deny that it's an arm of the art.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Yes. It is clearly a separate category. To say that it is the same whether or not the phenomena is executed by the mentalist or a "spirit" misses the key factor- the external "spirit" who is allegedly involved.
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