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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
I read medical stuff all the time. It's open to discussion. I think he already had the problem.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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houdinisghost Loyal user 287 Posts |
Harley,
What ere the symptoms of your appendicitis attack. I've had mine, I just want to compare notes. What were your symptoms ans how long were you affected by the appendicitis attack before they got it out. Did it burst before your appendectomy? |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Mine came out of nowhere...intense lower right quadrant pain and cramps, intestines shut down. It was close to popping, and so infected that it was necessary to remove more than the appendix. I remember the pain being not localized, but definitely centered on that area.
My questions in this arise from my experience with beds of nails. I've had a lot of blocks broken on my belly with a sledgehammer in full-swing, and I've done a lot of weight stunts, with up to 2760 lbs of stuff piled on top of me. There have been times when the hammer missed the block. That hurts a lot, and while the pain radiates, it's still focused on the point of contact. If I was punched where the deposition says, it wouldn't directly affect the area of the appendix. They were fishing for a lot of money. Then, as now, a slick lawyer can make a lot of difference.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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magicusb Inner circle 1135 Posts |
I had a bout when I was a kid. The doctor said he might have to operate. He said many get warning signs often months ahead. He said he would "Freeze" the appendix to try to resolve the problem before it escalated. Do not clearly remember what he did or if I went to the hospital for it. However, it subsided, went away, and I never had to get an operation and has never bothered since.
This leads me to believe that Houdini could have had warning signs months before... Gurtrude Hills story, Ptomaine reports, vomiting, etc., which Houdini characteristically would have ignored. Also, check out another thread here on the Café about yet another of future ex convict Whiteheads links to the occult that we are uncovering. He went to jail for stealing a book on the occult only two years after savagely attacking Houdini. We do not believe he was as innocent in this matter as many believe, with the help of Bernard Ernsts "accident" take on the backstage happenings. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=18&2 Dorothy Dietrich & Dick Brookz
Check out http://HoudiniOpoly.com
Houdini Museum Tour & Magic Show. Only building in the world dedicated to Houdini. http://Houdini.org http://HoudiniDisplays.com http://PsychicTheater.com Scranton, Pa (570) 342-5555 "The truth shall make you free, but first it will make you angry." -Robert Ingersoll-Atheist (on the mind of Houdini when he died.) We are thrilled we were able to bring The Grim Game to the world! Thanks TCM. |
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houdinisghost Loyal user 287 Posts |
Harley,
It's interesting that according to sworn testimony, it was Houdini's claim that he could duplicate a stunt in which a car drove over a board across a strong man's stomach that prompted Gordon Whitehead to ask if he could test Houdini's stomach muscles with a punch. Houdini gave his permission to Whitehead to test his stomach muscles with a punch. At that point in the boys' visit with Houdini, they had been discussing other things for about an hour. After the punches, the conversation went on for as long as another hour. Just as medical literature describes traumatic appendicitis as rare but real, recovery from appendicitis without the removal of the appendiz is relatively rare, but, Dick still has his appendix. I was seventeen and my symptoms came on fast and it was sharp pains in the stomach to the right of my navel, then generalized pain. Our 80 year old doctor said I was very constipated, so, he treated that with enemas. after my bowels were presumably less clogged, I continued to experience the pain and nausea, and my dad drove me to the doctor to have a blood count taken. I remember, my dad observing that I looked kind of green around the gills which didn't surprise me because I felt green around the gills. My dad told me about his own appendicitis. He was in college and drove himself to the hospital. I was offered my appendix as a souvenir which I declined. I didn't even look at it, but, was told it was comparatively huge. How old were you when your appendix was removed, Harley? |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
30. Gall bladder was much worse, and I was in shock.
The car stunt is easy, and used to be a whole lot easier...though I shall not discuss technique here. To me, the ironic thing is that a guy who was such a brilliant publicist, was done in by his publicity (assuming that the depositions, etc, are true). He HAD to have his brags, and they bit him.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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houdinisghost Loyal user 287 Posts |
Witnessing a gall bladder attack was chilling. I was At the VA hospital in West LA for my six month visit with my doctor. A couple of guys came in supporting a friend between them. His face was a terrible mask of pain--a weird color. They sent him over to UCLA. My father-in-law and fellow Vietnam Vet had a gall bladder attack, was operated on and sent home a day or so later. He told his daughter he felt like hell--and died that night. Another friend told me he would rather die than go through a gall bladder attack again.
Houdini's stomach muscles should have been strong. The upside down straitjacket would be an excellent exercise for toning the stomach muscles. Houdini appeared to be in good shape when he was examined prior to his underwater coffin test. His letter to the department of mines about his training for it is online. Of course they were checking blood pressure and heart rate and, I think, temperature. An hour and a half later, when he came out of the coffin, he was not in good shape--he had pushed it--breathing increasingly bad air until he was within 5 minutes of death. We know that because of his descriptions of the, almost moment to moment, symptoms and sensations he experienced. That was Aug. 5. When the boys noticed Houdini was limping as he moved about the dressing room, he explained he'd injured his ankle a couple weeks before, but, he said he was able to cover the limp when he was onstage. Covering a limp to get through a performance--and Houdini never missed a show--can mess you up. I've done it. I covered up the limp manfully and threw my back out every show doing it. |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
I sprained an ankle 12 years ago, and it never healed. My opposite leg...arthritic knee. Some days I don't know which leg to limp on worse. But on stage, I can go beyond them. In the SJ, I WILL get on the unicycle and escape. Period.
I think H was sick, and covering it up. It would not have been allowable, under the image he'd set for himself. And of course, the lawyers were there to make sure Bess got the money. They earned their keep.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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houdinisghost Loyal user 287 Posts |
You know, when you're on the road with a show, you're always sick. Carol Channing said she'd caught a cold in every city she ever played. 10,000 performances. She never missed a show. The Houdini show was playing a rough schedule, some split weeks, a lot of jumps.
I have caught at least one cold during every long run I've ever done--a problem when you're singing the lead in Kiss Me Kate or playing the Music Man. You psych yourself out, you honk and spit, you stop talking. I am almost always the last to go down. The bug has to go through all the other actors until it has mutated enough to try to defeat me--which it does--but I joined Equity in 1964 and I've never missed a show--I'm looking around for some wood to knock on. Last Christmas, I played Marley's Ghost in A Christmas Carol. Seventeen kids in the show. I was second oldest in the cast at 70. The 74 year old was sick as a dog, taking a savage beating, never missed a show. I think another set of reflexes takes over when you are performing. I've been in many a show where the whole cast was hacking their brains loose. I've never heard an actor cough on stage. When the great Allan Jones was playing Don Quijote he was in his seventies and the character had to get on his knees. Allan had broken both knees 40 years before playing polo. He told me he couldn't go to his knees and get back up without a lengthy struggle--unless he was playing Don Quijote. We've moved a million miles from the theme of "ALL TIED UP." Sorry. |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
There are a lot of intriguing things that happen with brain chemistry, and conflicting patterns that happen within different brain structures, that click into place when we perform. And the more we do it, the easier it is to click into that mode.
I've specialized in traditional stunts, and have only needed to change anything a couple of times. Sometimes, walking on swords barefoot, I've needed to hold on to something (that ankle again). When I've cracked ribs, I haven't taken as much weight as usual on me, on bed of nails. Usually, I just get through it. It's so simple.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
I always look forward to stepping on the stage when I'll. Adrenaline changes hormones and brain function. It's also an accecpted axium that if you act a certain way your attitude will align (Acting happy is a daily preoccupation and goal).
So after reading all the info in this thread it appears, to this unbiassed observer, that the murder theory is more speculative and circumstantial whereas the accident theory is supported by enough medical testimonial and other direct statements to sway me in that direction.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
And the third possibility...that H already had appendicitis, and the rupture was a natural process. His death was then exploited for a larger insurance payout.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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dave_matkin Inner circle 4522 Posts |
Jay.... Maybe I should learn from that ....I'm a right miserable git at the moment. Finding life a daily struggle.....but enough of me being a miserable sod...
Harley.... There is a 4th possibility ...... HH is still alive and well and it was just a cover up as he wanted to ..... Oh I don't know and Elvis pre-impressionist tribute artist. Hey it's possible! Well the faking death to do something else theory is possible if improbable .......but you never know! And cue the taking the liss out of my conspiracy theory! |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
You're right, Dave! He'd only be 141 or so?
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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houdinisghost Loyal user 287 Posts |
Tell me, Harley, how many people did you invite to punch you in the stomach when you had appendicitis? Furthermore, you haven't had to worry about traumatic appendicitis while performing the sledge against cinder block on stomach while reclining on a bed of nails trick since you were 30.
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
You and I disagree about the value of H as either a person or an entertainer. I see him as a great publicist, a good performer, and an otherwise unethical human being. He was vicious to the people he saw as competitors, stealing and destroying their equipment, and probably endangering some of them physically. He had patents for film processing...pretty funny for a guy who did not understand chemistry, and who was not much more than borderline literate.
If H invited the punch, it was his choice, albeit a bad one. If he had appendicitis when he was punched, then the lawyers were just trying to milk the system. Whether or not he had appendicitis, the blow described above was not placed where it would have done damage. I'm speaking from my experience and knowledge, which is extensive, especially regarding beds of nails. As I mentioned, I've had a lot of blocks smashed on my belly. I know my anatomy/physiology.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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Kevin Connolly Inner circle New Jersey 1329 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 2, 2014, Harley Newman wrote: SMH
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email] |
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houdinisghost Loyal user 287 Posts |
You're right, Kevin,
A complete thought which speaks for itself. A standalone statement that invites no commentary. Quote: On Mar 2, 2014, Harley Newman wrote: You and I disagree about the value of H as either a person or an entertainer. I see him as a great publicist, a good performer, and an otherwise unethical human being. He was vicious to the people he saw as competitors, stealing and destroying their equipment, and probably endangering some of them physically. He had patents for film processing...pretty funny for a guy who did not understand chemistry, and who was not much more than borderline literate. |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
SMH? That I'm not a blind-Houdini-worshiper, does not discount in any way what I've suggested as a third possibility. Shooting a messenger does not alter the message. Your hero-worship allows you to be wrapped up in the popular stories, to the degree that you only see those stories.
Again...a blow to the upper left area of the abdomen would not rupture a healthy appendix. Even if the appendix was infected, the possibility of rupturing from such a blow is small. If Houdini was already sick, then such a blow becomes an easy focal point, and it did. Do either of you gentlemen have real-world stunt experience?
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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houdinisghost Loyal user 287 Posts |
I told you way back in this post, The punch did not rupture the appendix. The punch caused the instant appendicitis. The appendix ruptured a day and a half later.
Did you mean me if you were asking "Do either of you gentlemen have any real world stunt experience?" This is Patrick Culliton talking. I performed in 200 television shows and 11 features--36 of them for Irwin Allen--and I did all my own stunts. But never mind that girly stuff. I served in the Vietnam War. I was decorated six times including the Bronze Star and the Purple Heart. Real world stunts? This conversation is over, chump! |
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