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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Sponge balls vs. lemons (for the Cups and Balls) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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snedglow
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Pine Grove, PA
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Groan ... I just read the crack about the frog load being great for table hopping! Smile

I have to agree with Darck Ninja, I can see how the third item being different could be a huge visual impact on the audience.

I use only the same items: three limes, that grow out of three green crocheted balls. But I think his idea has merit.

Alakazam!
-Randy
[email]rsnedden@closeupmagic.org[/email]
Smile
~~~~~
“Chance is but the pseudonym of God for those particular cases which He does not choose to subscribe to openly with His own signature ... ”
Darck Ninja
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SLC-UTAH
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After some more research, I find the best loads to be two limes and a lemon. Excellent reactions! Again, this is my ruitine, and my observation, from my presentation. Other things may work better for you, but this works great for me. Try it out sometime!

God Bless,


C. Vernon Bitter
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. He who does not know it and can no longer wonder, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." Einstein
Mr. Muggle
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Final loads depend on the routine, the conditions, the preformer, and the audience. Fruit is fine, but don't look past other loads, some are even stronger although perhaps less colorful.

My favorite is the jumbo ball bearing Paul Gertner produces. I've been working with a cantelope, trying to do the same thing. So far, mixed results in video testing.

IMO the larger the object, the better- as long as its not detected until the correct time.


MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
D J Hawkins
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Reading, UK
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Interesting topic - I would love to do Cups and Balls but have real problems with hiding the loads. I've worked with pros who say "just stick them in your jacket pocket". Little do they realise that the bulge created is SOOOOOO obvious !!!! Then, at the end of the effect, proceed to put the loads away in the same pockets IN FRONT OF THE SPECTATORS !!!!!!!!! Get real guys, you ain't fooling anyone. I too don't like the idea of sponges for reasons already stated. So any advice to solve this dilemma would be very welcome. Oh, and don't say hide them in your lap - I NEVER perform sitting down.

Dave Hawkins
David Hawkins

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MacGyver
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St. Louis, MO
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There are many differnt types of ball holders that either pin to the underside of your jacket or that attack to your belt that will be hidden by a jacket.


Very useful imho.
PROFED
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Most loads can be handled from the pocket or lap. To steel most loads, (balls, onions, small potatoes, etc), from a standing position. You could make a small pouch out almost any material. It should be hemmed with an opening that you thread wire thru.( coat hangers work well), that is twisted together then placed in a back pocket with pouch hanging out of the pocket.
Mr. Muggle
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Quote:
On 2004-03-05 15:19, D J Hawkins wrote:
I've worked with pros who say "just stick them in your jacket pocket". Little do they realise that the bulge created is SOOOOOO obvious !!!! Then, at the end of the effect, proceed to put the loads away in the same pockets IN FRONT OF THE SPECTATORS !!!!!!!!! Get real guys, you ain't fooling anyone.


Not trying to be "captain obvious" here, I wonder if you have tried a different type of coat? For me, pocket loads work fine & you cannot see any lumps. Remember the quality of the jacket comes into play with this load style.

In my performance jacket I only use one large load per pocket, but in some of my suit coats I cannot due to the material's properties. (so I use other loading systems - back pockets, sleeving, etc) You can also go thru your jacket pockets stealing a load from your beltline, un-noticed otherwise.

The other issue I think is body shape. Some peoples shapes allow them to do things most others cannot. It's like everything, preference and what works for you.

When done correctly using some thought and practice, you are fooling people. It's my experience watching others perform the cups that usually the spectators are less impressed with the small balls moving around than they are with the large final loads.

just my .02

MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
ursusminor
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Quote:
I've worked with pros who say "just stick them in your jacket pocket". Little do they realise that the bulge created is SOOOOOO obvious !!!! Then, at the end of the effect, proceed to put the loads away in the same pockets IN FRONT OF THE SPECTATORS !!!!!!!!! Get real guys, you ain't fooling anyone.


Well, what about the Gibercière (hope I spelled it correct...) that streetperformers have used for centuries? Do you think many spectators don't understand (perhaps after the fact) where the oranges came from?
It's the surprise of the final loads that get the reaction!
Don't get me wrong, I don't like bulging pockets myself, but I've used my pantspockets(Wide trousers) with success!
Vernon, Faucett Ross and many others have used their back pocket.
An amusing story: I once did the cups & balls at a friends house. It was around Christmastime and there was some tangerines on a plate in the room. I borrowed 4 of them and stuffed them in my pantspocket... The reaction when they appeared under the cups was: Oooh! there they are! I was wondering who had eaten them...
No one had noticed the bulging pocket!
Bjørn
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them
pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened."
- Winston Churchill"
maniac
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Atlanta, Ga
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Dave, They don't know where they come from or how they got there. Just last week I performed cups and balls and some one asked, where did the large balls come from? I boldly stated "I put them there". They comenced to argue with me stating that that was not possible because they were watching me and they did not see me put them there.

The point is that people beleave what they see (or don't see). I have had people behind me ask where did the lemons come from.

As for the buldge in the pockets, people know you are a Magician after the first trick which came from you pocket.
Jonathan Townsend
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There is a good reason for carrying a holster or a properly setup topit or suspenders. All to manage loads. And still confused about who would suggest using sponge balls for final loads.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
chrisrkline
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I am one of those who does Andrews' Table Hopping Cups & Balls with the sponge ball final load. I am not a cup and ball performer, per se, just once in a while. I use three balls of the same color because I go straight into the short sponge ball routine, Aint no mo.

I am seriously thinking about going a little more seriously into cup and balls so I will begin to work with the fruit as final load, but the two ball routine with the sponge ball final load works well now and the reactions are pretty good.
Chris
Pete Biro
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You don't need HUGE final loads (unless on the street and working from a pouch). It is the change. Small lemons etc. are fine.

As far as bulging jacket pockets, check the Dai Vernon work, he used the rear trouser pocket. You can work from more than one pocket too.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
KirkG
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Jonathan,

It was Carl Andrews who suggested (most recently) using sponge balls as final loads. He does it for pocket managment and he goes into a sponge ball routine with the loads right afterwards. This is from his Table Hopping Cups and Balls video.

While I agree that it is the change that matters most, I think the solidity matters almost as much, so I don't use collapsable loads. Almost after every show the audience comes up and checks to see if they compress and they are even more impressed when they don't.

Kirk G.
Pete Biro
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Johnny Paul had one of the most entertaining routines, he used sponge balls for the routine, but a lemon for the final load. (One lemon, under one cup, which made sense in his routine).
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Mr. Muggle
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I think that's why Johnny Paul's routine killed. Even if you got past the sponge's properties, and the throwing of the cup, the non-congruent lemon final load had you stunned. IMO, the perfect mixture.

Johnny Paul's routine is my favorite cups routine of all time, next to my own.

I wonder, are the replica J.Paul cups still available?

MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Darck Ninja
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OK, I analyzed the C&B final loads psychologically, this is what I found: Yes, the Sponge balls may give you the same temperamental reaction, but solid loads not only surprise the eye with something different, but they also say, "There is no possible way he could have 'faked' this one. This is real magic, this would be impossible to put in that cup without me seeing!"
This is what I think are the most important things in order from most, to least.
1. incongruent
2. large
3. very contrasting color in accordance with color of mat.
4. Texture/feeling/solid appeal
5. contrasting of each-other. For instance, in Carl Andrew's routine, he finishes with two little balls, and one big ball. I finish with two limes/sponge balls, and one big lemon.

God Bless,


C. Vernon Bitter
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. He who does not know it and can no longer wonder, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." Einstein
Mr. Muggle
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Quote:
On 2004-03-09 00:05, Darck Ninja wrote:
This is what I think are the most important things in order from most, to least.
1. incongruent
2. large
3. very contrasting color in accordance with color of mat.
4. Texture/feeling/solid appeal
5. contrasting of each-other. C. Vernon Bitter


The most important thing in the routine is the perfection of the sleights, loading, and presentation. Everything else IMO is personal preference. Even so, here is my .02-

The loads being congruent or incongruent I think matters only by routine design. I have a cups routine that I do with Large 2.75" Snap-On sockets and 3/4" nuts. At the end, I produce a wadded up blue shop towel, a can of grease, and then a large nut. In this routine it makes sense and has shock value, but it isn't necessarily the best way to go.

Like Pete said, large loads aren't necessarily the way to go either. Otherwise the overflowing sponge balls from hand effect wouldn't play so well. Another effect yet, but it can be done with the cups- yes, even though they are sponge balls.

I agree with using contrasting colors. I try to do that with all my magic. Color stands out, and in its-self can be used as a minor misdirection. Not to mention that it always is pleasing to the eye and a suprise.

Lastly, I like heavy, solid final loads. In my mind, when spectators handle our props & find that their light in weight, they could appear to be easier to manipulate. This is only my opinion, however.

Then again rule #1, perfect the sleights & routine, after which, it's all Personal Preference.

MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Darck Ninja
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Dude, that's a given. I'm talking about physical hardware. I figured most of you were smart enough to figure that out. Oh well, I guess I'll have to be a little more clear for those of you who don't have common magician sense.

God Bless,


C. Vernon
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. He who does not know it and can no longer wonder, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." Einstein
Daniel Faith
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Trust me.
Carl Andrews' routine does work.
In a table hopping setting it is awesome.
It leads you perfectly into a sponge ball routine and a good closing routine.
Not all C&B routine must have an impossible load.
In a table hopping venue I will use a very similar routine to Carl's.
Otherwise, I like using Michael Ammar's approach with 3 cups and fruit.
By the way, you can buy the most awesome rubber fruit from Michael Ammar's web site.
It is extremely real and I am happy to own it.
You get a lemon, a lime, a potato and a turnip.

(You never know what may turnip under those cups!)
Daniel Faith
saturnin
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Montreal, Canada
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GUARDIAN wrote:
"By the way, you can buy the most awesome rubber fruit from Michael Ammars web site. "

Just go to any Art Craft store and you can buy all the fake vegetables and fruits you want for a tiny fraction of Ammar's (or other magic shops) price!!!

Ronnie lemieux
Montreal
Canada
There is no road to happiness,

happiness is the road!
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