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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Here's the thing about cups -- it all depends on what you are going to do with them.
The Sherwood cups feel great and take anything up to the size of a tennis ball for a final load. For most people, this is perfect. You can put a lemon or a small potato in a cup this size. They will handle anything a Paul Fox cup will. The Paul Fox cups are legendary, but not necessarily "the best." However, if you can find three lacrosse balls of the right size for these cups (lacrosse balls vary in size slightly) you can do a bit that Francis Carlyle used to cadge drinks at bars during his declining years. He would walk into a bar with one of his PF cups and a lacrosse ball. He would put said ball on top of the cup and bet that it would fit inside. Nobody would believe it would. He would line up the bets, then put the ball into the cup. I don't think Brett Sherwood has anything to fear from the sales of the Penguin and Magic Makers "Faux Fox" cups. Those who appreciate fine cups will purchase the Sherwoods and will be greatly pleased with them. Those who can't afford the Sherwoods will purchase the "Faux Fox" cups and will also be pleased, if the sets they receive have everything in place. They vary in quality, so inspect your cups for open beads at the rims and strange nesting. On the other hand, if you are a street performer, and you need a jumbo cup for your shows, then you might want to look at some of the larger cups that are out there. I have a set of Porper cups coming soon. I'll be reviewing them. They are almost out of production, so the review might be of very little significance, anyway. There are plenty of cups for everyone, and there is a big market for everyone in the cup and ball business.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Steve Pellegrino Loyal user 224 Posts |
I just bought a set of the Penguin Cups and when they come in I'll do a side by side comparison with the Johnson Cups for those of you who are interested. I'll even include photos!
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John Clarkson Special user Santa Barbara, CA 749 Posts |
I am selling my extra set of Animal cups. and have listed it here. I have no intention of letting go of the other three sets I have.... my therapist is making me do it as part of my "cure."
For those of you who want a great set of cups, but don't want to spend a lot of money, this is your chance. SOLD!!
John D. Clarkson, S.O.B. (Sacred Omphaloskeptic Brotherhood)
Cozener "There is nothing more important to a magician than keeping secrets. Probably because so many of them are Gay." —Peggy, from King of the Hill (Sleight of Hank) |
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videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-12 09:28, Steve Pellegrino wrote: That would be great. Please follow through on that as I'd love to hear your opinion on the merits of each. Looking forward to it. Thanks, Bill |
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KirkG Inner circle 1391 Posts |
Just wanted to remind you about the JES cups. these are available in copper and Nickeled Silver. they are very close to Paul Fox in style and run about $255 for copper and $325 for Nickeled Silver.
I have a set of the Paul Fox Danny Dew cups from 1975 and I love them. I have a set of JES and it is very hard to tell them apart. The function perfectly. I will be getting a deal on some Penguin cups so I will have those to compare as well. The engraved Sherwood cups are wonderful, just a little heavier than Fox, but not as heavy as Johnson. The balance in exceptional, but a little different than the Fox. I will one day own a set, but for right now, I will have to save my pennies. I may just go out and book a couple of extra shows, just to pay for a set so I can get them faster. Kirk |
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Steve Pellegrino Loyal user 224 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-12 14:37, videoman wrote: Bill, Don't worry - I will be following through. I just got an e-mail from Penguin that my order was shipped today. It's coming priority so should have these in a couple of days. As soon as I get them I'll take some photos and make everything available. |
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harp New user Oklahoma 71 Posts |
Mr. Sherwood-
Your work is stunning. My question for you and others regards the different attributes of brass and copper. What are the advantages of either or is it simply one of personal taste? The copper are beautiful and would be my pick of the two for appearance alone. My apologies if this has been addressed before. Harp |
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Brett Sherwood New user 96 Posts |
Hi Harp,
Thank you for the compliment! I believe you should primarily get which cup you like the appearance of, as long as it is a good cup to begin with, it will last forever. You get what you pay for! Regarding the attributes of the copper and brass, there are several; First obviously the color, which color do you prefer and why. Both will tarnish eventually. Will the color contrast nicely with your manipulation/load balls (fruit), mat, accessories (wand), background (your clothes). This is a minor detail, but all details are important. Apart from the appearance, these two different metals have very different densities. I am not a Physic's major, but I believe this basically means how compact the metal is per unit volume etc. Anyway, in relationship between the two, brass is a much harder compacted metal and thus is more difficult to spin by hand. Most hand spun cups are made from copper apart from the brass Johnson cups, but these are CNC (computer controlled lathe) not hand spun. My copper and brass cups are expertly hand spun and weigh just over the Johnson's at 6&1/2 ounces, but they feel lighter because of the distribution of weight = balance. I personally find the Johnsons' top heavy, because of the CNC lathe leaving thicker material inside the top walls. Anyway, I digress... because brass has this higher density it 'rings' nicely, whereas copper is softer and more pliable to spin by hand, but still very solid to the touch. Copper does not 'ring' like the brass, because the density of the metal is not as compact. Anyway, hope this is helpful? Brett Sherwood |
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harp New user Oklahoma 71 Posts |
Thank you Brett. Very helpful indeed.
Harp |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
Mr. Sherwood,
Is each of your cups turned individualy by hand or do you use a duplication laythe? I would imagine that doing one cup at a time by hand would take some considerable time, especially making sure that there are no errors. I have a set of your ultimate cups on my wish list, but to bad for me- Christmas already came. I'll have to watch Ebay. MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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Darck Ninja New user SLC-UTAH 76 Posts |
Lol, yeah, if only!
For now I'm just going to go with a set of Morissey, I like the feel, and the price is right. Eventually, I'll go with a set of Penguins. And, if It ever seems to fit my wallet right, I will jump on the opportunity to get some Sherwood cups. The Darck One
"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. He who does not know it and can no longer wonder, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." Einstein
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
I still contend that the first person who turns a set of Paul Fox-like "beginner cups" in aluminum will also make a bundle. I'd be buying them in bulk, just to resell to those interested after certain performances.
I saw a set on ebay that meets this description, and the bidding was fierce. Granted, the Penguin cups come close (I do not own a set as of yet, but plan to), but aluminum would be a nice guerilla set for travel (and impromptu street performances). |
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Etienne M. New user Netherlands 75 Posts |
Today I recieved the Penguin cups. When I opened the package the cups were dented and scratched. And they did not stack very well. So I sent Penguin an e-mail, I'm still waiting for a reply.
What do you do when something like this happens to you? Floyd
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein |
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Steve Pellegrino Loyal user 224 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-14 14:32, Floyd wrote: First of all, give Penguin a chance to reply to your email or if you want to resolve it quicker, give them a call. I would also ask that you give Penguin a chance to resolve the situation for you. They are known for good customer service and I'm sure that will make it right for you in the end. |
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Etienne M. New user Netherlands 75 Posts |
Hi Steve,
I surely hope so. Last week I also sent them an e-mail but I´m still waiting for a reply. This all seems strange to me because everytime I talk to someone who has ordered something at Penguin and have sent them an e-mail they all where very happy with their fast response. Floyd
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein |
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Steve Pellegrino Loyal user 224 Posts |
You may also want to send Maxwell a PM. He is here on the Café all the time and is responsive to any problems.
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NYKnicks5 New user 72 Posts |
I recieved my Penguin cups about two weeks ago and they are great. I received them as a free gift and I can honestly say they are worth the 100 bucks. I have purchased a number of items from Penguin and I think they are a great magic store. I am upset to hear bad things about them, because I have yet to have any problems with them. My cups came in perfect condition. Personally I recommend them highly, although I do not have any other experience with high-end cups (only $30 aluminum cups).
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Brett Sherwood New user 96 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-13 02:29, Mr. Muggle wrote: Sorry for the delay in replying to your question, but I rarely have time to visit internet forms. Yes, you are correct, it does take a long time to hand spin my cups individually. However, this is the way they are spun and the benefit of this method is the final result - QUALITY. This was the method Danny Dew used to spin his Paul Fox designed cups. You get what you pay for! My new copper and brass cups are also finished to a remarkably high standard and I would have it no other way. The profession I love (magic) deserves nothing less than the finest in quality tools (props) I am capable of producing. Just as musicians seek out the finest in musical instruments to highlight their musical prowess, magicians should respect their art and themselves enough to do the same. Many magicians spend years perfecting their sleight-of-hand skills and should use tools (cups in this instance) which help ease the technical requirements and at the same instant, these tools (props) should also represent YOU and the QUALITY of your magic. My new 'smooth' cups have no gaps in the base bead etc, etc..(see above announcement). I firmly believe that these are the finest copper and brass cups being currently hand spun in the world. Yes, Johnsons', Porper and A. Van Dokkum are nice high-end cups, but none of these are hand spun. These are instead made by CNC (computer controlled lathe). I personally prefer using a cup made by a talented artist (spinner), than a cup cut out of a solid block of metal by a computerized machine (cloned), but this is a personal choice. Further, apart from the design, are not the original Danny Dew - Paul Fox cups enviable, because a talented artist made them individually? This is the same attention to detail I am now applying to my entire range of cups. Whichever cups you decide to invest in, I wish you all much enjoyment with the greatest close-up trick ever invented - 'The Cups and Balls'. If you wish to visit my website see; http://www.SherwoodMagic.com |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-11 14:44, Mr. Muggle wrote: That's not exactly the case. VanDokkum may do the primary work with CNC technology, but there is still a LOT of hand work in his cups. CNC work, although very precise, still doesn't account for the mirror-like finish on the cups. They don't just get spit out from the CNC machine like so many nuts and bolts! I have a set of VanDokkum jumbos which I really like. But the Sherwoods are in a class by themselves!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
OK, at the WMS I picked up (to look at not buy) the Penguin Paul Fox copies. The set I handled were terrific. I can recommend them in that price range.
But, if you want to move UP then I would get the Buma Cups from http://www.stevensmagic.com Buma cups are fantastic, engraved and way less money than many of the high-end cups. (Sherwood's are still the top of the heap, if you can afford them go for his). Van Dokken had a dozen differrent sizes/styles including one nearly big enough for a soccer ball load... Porper sets were there too and can't be beat for their presentation and quality. I bought Thomas Wayne's new chop cup. A coffee cup but the magentic principle is DIFFERENT... you don't slam the cup down to make it work. A new way and it is great. His final ball vanish (with a Kohler Fitch holdout) had me baffled until he told me what he was using. Oh, I gotta win the lottery.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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