The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Trinity (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
harris
View Profile
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
8663 Posts

Profile of harris
Do any of you use magic or other illustrations to talk about the Father ,Son and Holy Spirit.

Could be

A. Use of the 3 roped
B. Use of science for H2O. The same whether liquid, solid or gas it is H2O.

And you???

Thanks to all for being loyal and trusted servants and sharing your love and on fire for our Savior.

love brother Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
DougTait
View Profile
Elite user
Sebring, FL
490 Posts

Profile of DougTait
"Patriotic ropes" but in green, red & white (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).
They appear to be 3 seperate pieces, but are actually one piece (One God.
By adding gimicks to the ends you can show a complete circle (No begining & no end)
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and women] to do nothing."
harris
View Profile
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
8663 Posts

Profile of harris
Nice!
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
This explains why I don't try to explain the Trinity using magic or any type of heretical analogy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dADpSJan3......=mh_lolz
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
harris
View Profile
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
8663 Posts

Profile of harris
As Paul said, come to each person as The Holy Spirit directs you.

I have found some of my analogies fall way short.
Other times they work.

Those that have ears, let them hear.

Jesus didn't use analogies/ parables to illustrate...communicate to those ready to hear.
At least that's what my brain pulled up at the moment. May be a different thought in 5 minutes.

Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
Anytime I perform in a Church, I am aware that most of the children, (if not all of them) are already saved, or and, have a basic understanding of the ABC's of the Christian faith. I'm also aware that they have a Sheppard (Youth Minister)who has been called and appointed by God to teach and minister to them. Therefore, I refrain from taking that role and just perform magic tricks that have a message that have to do with such things as morals, and ethics. Topics such as forgiveness, helping others in need, being kind and loving to others, always telling the truth, talking to God, reading our Bible, going to church, priorities, respecting our elders, obeying mom and dad, not to steal, etc.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
See I have the opposite experience. Pastors and Student Ministers bring me in to do evangelism. However I have never been crazy about trinity analogies, because of the video. However Dr. William Lane Craig has got a fantastic teaching class on the doctrine of the trinity which exposes some of these ideas as well.
harris
View Profile
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
8663 Posts

Profile of harris
Sounds Good.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
Awesome!
I was a Youth Pastor and Evangelist before I got into performing magic. I found, and still find magic a great introduction when witnessing on the streets. When I began performing for churches, I started to perform Gospel Magic. Eventually, in my situations, I found I was evagelizing to children who had already been saved by the blood of Christ. (Preaching to the choir). All my church bookings were like that. I had this thought that churches would use me to bring unsaved children into the church so I can evangelize to them using magic. This never became the case for me. I branched out as a children's entertainer and magician and left the Gospel magic behind. Now, I get more bookings with churches, and I don't perform Gospel magic. I perform what I call a church themed show, magic with a message.

I am glad to hear that God is using you and your talents to evangelize within the church. Glad to hear those Pastors are using you to bring unsaved children into the church to hear God's message.


Quote:
On 2014-02-18 12:19, Bryan Drake Show wrote:
See I have the opposite experience. Pastors and Student Ministers bring me in to do evangelism. However I have never been crazy about trinity analogies, because of the video. However Dr. William Lane Craig has got a fantastic teaching class on the doctrine of the trinity which exposes some of these ideas as well.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Terry Holley
View Profile
Inner circle
1789 Posts

Profile of Terry Holley
Quote:
On 2014-02-18 11:16, Danny Kazam wrote:
This explains why I don't try to explain the Trinity using magic or any type of heretical analogy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dADpSJan3......=mh_lolz


I really enjoyed the video! I also prefer using the term "Godhead" to "Trinity", but most people are more familar with "Trinity."
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
jamiedoyle
View Profile
Special user
Lafayette, IN
603 Posts

Profile of jamiedoyle
I have a routine Using spongeballs in one of my latest books - Duane Laflin also featured it in a recent issue of Grand Magic Magazine.

Basically, you use 2 - 3" spongeballs and one Incredi-Ball from Gosh.
Turn Incredi-Ball Inside-out so it matches the other 2 - 3" spongeballs. Hold-up each one and discuss the different attributes of God showing Himself to us as a Father, the Son (Jesus) and a Holy Spirit. As you bring the three together, the Incredi-ball is turned rightside as it "swallows" the regular spongeballs... all three as One.

Enjoy!
Jamie Doyle

jamiedoyle.com
Theodore Lawton
View Profile
Inner circle
1631 Posts

Profile of Theodore Lawton
I'll just throw these thoughts out here.

Many times in the book of Revelation the apostle John uses the word "like" to describe something that is impossible to convey properly. I doubt we would describe John as being heretical for his descriptive failures due to the limitations of our human reasoning and understanding.

In describing the Trinity we of course will always fall short, but I wouldn't label someone as a heretic just because they are trying to describe something that is indescribable. We're talking about a children's gospel magic show, not a seminary course or a basis for church doctrine.

In the end what is your goal? Are you trying to plant good seeds of the majesty and awe of God in the minds of your young audience by explaining that the Trinity is "like" this, but really it's also indescribable? You can continue by telling the children that this just gives us a very limited way to talk about our awesome God who is one in three persons.

Or are you saying, "This perfectly describes the Trinity without fail." I doubt any of us would do this.

God in His grace understands that we can't fully describe Him, but we can offer simple methods to try and describe aspects of Him and consider Him in His majesty without condemnation.

I see no one here as "wrong" in their performance convictions either. If you personally don't want to do it, then don't. If you feel God is leading you to do this for His glory, then by all means do it.

One thing that bothered me about the video was the description of modalism in regards to the water analogy. According to modalism one can't exist at the same time or place as the other, thus creating heretical doctrine. Have these people never had a glass of ice water? The water is there in all three forms; solid, liquid and vapor, at the same time. Look at the Arctic for that matter; water is in all three forms there.

Just an observation. I'm not saying that water is a fantastic analogy and I also agree with the video that saying the Trinity is indescribable is probably the best thing we can do, but there is also grace sufficient for our humble analogies in trying to share how awesome our God is without being cast out as a heretical unbeliever.

I'm just sharing this next bit because I think it's amazing:

One of the best ways I ever heard to describe the Trinity was that we can't see and understand the Trinity itself, but we can see the effects in the creation of having a God who is one in three persons. It's like if you built something; your fingerprints would be all over it.

We can see that in the creation in that the number three is so recurring.

There is space, time and matter that make up all the creation. All exist together, yet all three are also separate.

Space has 3 separate dimensions that all exist together to make up the whole.

Time has present, past and future and while two of them can't be seen- much like the Father and the Spirit, they are just as much a part of the whole as the present.

Matter exists in solids, liquids and gasses

And so on.

Whatever you do, do it to the glory of God and may He bless you.
Magic is the bacon in the breakfast of life.

............................................

God bless you and have a magical day
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
But water is all the same substance just taking three different forms. Are we not taught that Jesus is distinct from the Father, and the Father is distinct from the Son, and the same with the Holy Spirit?

This is what I believe. Adam and Eve were the first sinners. Sin was passed down from father to child. So, even when I child is born, he is born with inherited sin. Man had to pay for sin by the shedding of his blood, but the man had to be perfect as set out by example of the first born livestock without blemish in the OT sacrifice for sin. There could never be perfect man born without sin because of sin inherited by through the father. Therefore, God, by the Holy Spirit intervened by illiminating man from the birth process of Jesus. Hence, Jesus was born without sin. It is my understanding that Jesus could of sinned if he chose to, that's why he was allowed to be tested by being tempted by the devil for 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness. The devil wasn't tempting God, and the devil was fully aware of who Jesus was. Jesus passed the test and became the perfect sacrifice for our sins.

Without denying the divinty of Christ, we cannot deny the humanness of Jesus, and that he was man. When we say he was God in the flesh, it can be confused that God came down and covered Himself in flesh, and that God became a living sacrifice for our sins. This, I believe contradicts prophecy that tells us man's blood must be poured out as an atonement for sin. There was clearly a distinction between the Son of God, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. How it all works is and always be a mystery. I don't even try to explain it, because I will never do it any justice. There are some things we don't need to understand, just believe and have faith.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Danny Kazam
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of Danny Kazam
But water is all the same substance just taking three different forms. Are we not taught that Jesus is distinct from the Father, and the Father is distinct from the Son, and the same with the Holy Spirit?

This is what I believe. Adam and Eve were the first sinners. Sin was passed down from father to child. So, even when I child is born, he is born with inherited sin. Man had to pay for sin by the shedding of his blood, but the man had to be perfect as set out by example of the first born livestock without blemish in the OT sacrifice for sin. There could never be perfect man born without sin because of sin inherited by through the father. Therefore, God, by the Holy Spirit intervened by illiminating man from the birth process of Jesus. Hence, Jesus was born without sin. It is my understanding that Jesus could of sinned if he chose to, that's why he was allowed to be tested by being tempted by the devil for 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness. The devil wasn't tempting God, and the devil was fully aware of who Jesus was. Jesus passed the test and became the perfect sacrifice for our sins.

Without denying the divinty of Christ, we cannot deny the humanness of Jesus, and that he was man. When we say he was God in the flesh, it can be confused that God came down and covered Himself in flesh, and that God became a living sacrifice for our sins. This, I believe contradicts prophecy that tells us man's blood must be poured out as an atonement for sin. There was clearly a distinction between the Son of God, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. How it all works is and always be a mystery. I don't even try to explain it, because I will never do it any justice. There are some things we don't need to understand, just believe and have faith.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
Rickfcm
View Profile
Veteran user
lower Michigan
379 Posts

Profile of Rickfcm
Iused Strat-o-sphere in Sunday School. It's not specifically abou the Trinity but maybe you can build on it. Here is my lesson.

THE PLAN FOR JESUS/TRINITY

EFFECT NEEDED: Stratosphere. This illusion has three different color balls that change places. You will need to purchase the illusion to understand how it works.

OBJECT OF LESSON: To describe the mission of Jesus for us.

LESSON

(This will be a basic outline of the routine; you will need to fill in the details in your own style) The Stratosphere is heaven where the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were since the beginning of time. The basic idea is to use the balls to represent the three persons of the trinity. The green ball would represent God the Father because when I think of green I think of a traffic light and green stands for “GO”. It was the Father who allowed the Holy Spirit to “GO” (being sent by Jesus) to His children to be their Comforter. Yellow reminds me of the sun. It radiates light and heat throughout the world just as when we are filled with the Holy Spirit we radiate God’s love and witness to the world. So the yellow ball will represent the Holy Spirit. And finally, red reminds me of Jesus. So the red ball will represent Jesus because of the blood he shed for us.

I use the three balls to describe to the children the trinity and talk about the time the Father sent Jesus to earth to be with us. You can make the red ball appear at the top as is normal with the stratosphere to show that no one figure I the Trinity is first but they are all equal. Finally Jesus is sent to earth. I use the gimmicked box to represent the empty tomb. On the front of the gimmick is a picture of a jester. I painted a picture of the empty tube on mine. You can download a clip art of the empty tomb and use rubber cement to cover yours. It will easily peel off when you are done. Jesus came to earth, (tell in your words) died on the cross and was buried. (Put red ball in the gimmicked box.) On the third day the grave was found empty. (Show the gimmicked box empty.) Talk about Jesus’ victory over sin and death and how he ascended to heaven. And finally you show Jesusback with the Father and the Holy Spirit in heaven, waiting for us and preparing a place for us. (I know the Holy Spirit is here with us but because he is God he is everywhere.
Theodore Lawton
View Profile
Inner circle
1631 Posts

Profile of Theodore Lawton
Hi Danny Smile

I heard a great explanation of Jesus being tested.

Sometimes things are tested to show that they can't fail.

Just something to think about brother.

God bless you!
Magic is the bacon in the breakfast of life.

............................................

God bless you and have a magical day
Bryan Drake Show
View Profile
Regular user
Alabama
125 Posts

Profile of Bryan Drake Show
I think the orthodox view is homoousion right?
REV BILL
View Profile
Inner circle
Glen Burnie Maryland
1020 Posts

Profile of REV BILL
Professors nightmare
Specializing in Family Entertainment,Gospel,Comedy and Educational programs for over 30 years.(Order of Merlin)
RobFromNZ
View Profile
New user
New Zealand
99 Posts

Profile of RobFromNZ
Quote:
On 2014-02-18 22:36, Bryan Drake Show wrote:
I think the orthodox view is homoousion right?


Right, as opposed to homoiousios (not the orthodox view). I take it this question refers to Danny's post...

I guess this thread sums up why I am a pastor, and a hobbiest-magician, but don't do 'gospel magic'. I'm quite sure magic can help explain biblical concepts to kids (much like an object lesson). But the problem seems to be when we say "I want to teach X truth...what magic trick can do that". What if teaching X truth would be better done without a magic trick? What if presenting a particular truth with magic actually obscures the point?

I'm not opposed to magic to help kids learn about the Christian faith. I just think magic is limited in what it can do, and not always the most helpful means of communicating.

I would include the "Trinity" in that camp, probably best taught in another way...
harris
View Profile
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
8663 Posts

Profile of harris
We are limited.

Yes indeed.

Praising God.

Love brother Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Trinity (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.21 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL